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[OPT] [UPDATE NOV.11]提供一点支持opt extension的数据素材,用数据说话

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qingbinlee 发表于 2015-11-10 11:58:09 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式

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本帖最后由 qingbinlee 于 2015-11-12 04:12 编辑 . 1point 3acres 璁哄潧

UPDATE NOV.11. visit 1point3acres.com for more.
. 鍥磋鎴戜滑@1point 3 acres
http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/seind14/index.cfm/chapter-2 这里有2010年以后美国培养stem Phd高学历人才的新data,从全世界角度来说美国拥有的STEM phd最多,其中40%是international students。其他各国近年来也你追我赶的培养STEM,老美花那么多人力和奖学金培养的Phd自己不用,把30,000个高学历退回去就变成US的competitors实在是太愚蠢了。 [感谢hulee提供资料]. 鍥磋鎴戜滑@1point 3 acres

UPDATE NOV.10

US News 关于stem短缺的报道 http://www.usnews.com/opinion/ar ... er-shortage-is-real

这篇文章数据可视化做的很棒, 里面有很多数据可以直接引用: http://www.adeccousa.com/employe ... ing-innovation.aspx


UPDATE NOV.9
反对评论里面中有数据的引用,既然是大数据时代,我们支持的评论也应该有数据支持。. 1point3acres.com/bbs

. 鐣欏鐢宠璁哄潧-涓浜╀笁鍒嗗湴搜到了一些报告,关于国际学生给美国经济带来的benefit,大家在写评论的时候可以拿来例证。
. 1point 3acres 璁哄潧
http://www.nafsa.org/_/File/_/eis2014/USA.pdf

http://www.nafsa.org/Explore_Int ... conomic_Value_Tool/. 涓浜-涓夊垎-鍦帮紝鐙鍙戝竷
http://www.iie.org/Research-and- ... ernational-Students

如果小伙伴们有别的数据来源,欢迎补充

. 鐗涗汉浜戦泦,涓浜╀笁鍒嗗湴

再补充两篇美国人写的新闻报道
http://immigrationimpact.com/201 ... llions-u-s-economy/. from: 1point3acres.com/bbs


http://wenr.wes.org/2015/02/inte ... onomic-perspective/ 这一篇的结论很值得借鉴,里面专门有stem国际学对美国的重要性及贡献,具体有
1. 美国在stem领域的领导地位在丧失(http://www.nber.org/papers/w11457.pdf
2. 国际学生是stem的生力军( http://wenr.wes.org/2014/03/inte ... tum-of-stem-fields/. 1point3acres.com/bbs
3. duke university 研究表明国际学生能帮助美国stem专业的学生提高各种技巧 (http://today.duke.edu/2013/06/internationalengage

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Hulee 发表于 2015-11-12 03:26:29 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 Hulee 于 2015-11-12 03:46 编辑

是回复楼上那篇的,为了驳斥老美几条无稽之谈的。大家都看看吧,希望对comments有帮助。
在赶飞机,简单说几点:第一,所有的PhD都是做过5-8年research project的,STEM的Master也是2年project,早就well trained了。哪怕本科生也是做过1年/1年半coop才能毕业的。且train不等于communication,我们international就是因为身份不稳定,在公司里都很积极的。

第二,tax exemption只给5年,Phd等能毕业时基本都5年以后了。而且tax exemption只对前5千刀免税,对于一个有STEM job的人来说,一个月工资就5千了,顶多免1个月的,后面11个月tax rate跟citizen一样一样的。并且,international student交的学费是citizen的两倍,早付出去了,老美还有得赚呢!Extension一推翻,你们连学费都没得赚!. from: 1point3acres.com/bbs

第三,你们老美接收了1万叙利亚refugees,留下500万非法移民,却把3万能创造新科技的STEM高学历高素质赶回去?你们这样做才会改变population好吧~~. visit 1point3acres.com for more.
. more info on 1point3acres.com
第四,internationals可以带来更多的国际元素,使公司文化更加国际化,能well boost company strategy in mid/long run。
. From 1point 3acres bbs
够了吧?

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jeff_xu001 发表于 2015-11-10 13:05:40 | 显示全部楼层
有理有据,good work!建议W大推广
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mint0715 发表于 2015-11-10 13:08:58 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 mint0715 于 2015-11-10 13:27 编辑

好顶赞。. 1point3acres.com/bbs
数据支持比空口刷评论靠谱不少。语言劣势的话,论据不能再吃亏了
lz分享的这几篇,abstract稍微抄几句改几个词发出来就是一偏好comment。
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中庸人90 发表于 2015-11-10 13:56:28 | 显示全部楼层
觉得有理有据的comment是最重要的,求推广
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daheng1991 发表于 2015-11-11 06:24:46 | 显示全部楼层
资料整理的很细心. 鐣欏鐢宠璁哄潧-涓浜╀笁鍒嗗湴
多些楼主
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googlesde 发表于 2015-11-11 06:30:52 | 显示全部楼层
看看如何反驳这个篇。。。

I would like to submit my comments in response to this proposed rule, regarding to Docket ID: ICEB-2015-0002. Extension of OPT for F-1 nonimmigrant students with STEM doesn’t benefit the U.S. government and U.S. local residents. I strongly disagree to approving this rule on Oct 19, 2015.

First, the new proposed extension of OPT benefits neither local businesses nor U.S. economy. Most of students who just graduate from school and want this extension are not well-trained or rich-experience technical employees. From a local business perspective, companies are looking for rich-experience and well-communicated technical employees. Apparently, the population of new international students with OPT is not a good option. International students can’t stay as long as U.S. residents unless they can gain H1B visas. No matter how long this extension is, the issue won’t be solved and companies won’t be able to gain lots of benefits from training the new international grads with new extension STEM OPT as long as the number of H1B approved visas still remains small. In contrast, the international students will use the experience they learned from U.S. companies against U.S. companies and hurts U.S. economy for a long run after they go home with 2 or 3 years work experience in U.S.

Second, most of international student employees with OPT don’t pay Social Security taxes and Medicare taxes because the tax exemption from IRS. If they want to stay and work in U.S. longer, I suggest that they should apply for H1B instead of using new proposed extension of OPT. It’s unfair for local people who live and work hard here but pay more taxes. It’s about fairness and equal justice. What’s more, the more position filled by international students with OPT; the fewer social security taxes will be collected. It will be a new burden of U.S. government to continue paying retirement pension with less social security taxes. Hence, no new extension is necessary and new proposed rule is not a good solution.
-google 1point3acres
Third, the new OPT extension has side effect of stabilizing U.S. population. I suspect whether U.S. government is ready for a new wave of immigrations caused by the new OPT extension. According to the U.S. immigration and population growth, U.S. Immigration currently contributes over 2.25 million people to the U.S. population annually. And this new proposed rule will boost the population to another heap. It will be too late if we don’t take any action to stabilize U.S. population. Population has been a concern of environmentalists since the first Earth Day in 1970. What’s more, all of F-1 non-immigration visa holders should not have the immigration intent otherwise it will invalidate the initial purpose to enter U.S. It may cause the difficulty for future international students studying here as the suspicion of immigration intent.

Fourth, providing more OPT opportunities to STEM graduates will NOT assist U.S. companies in the application of the latest strategies and techniques in the field. In contrast, they will limit opportunities to American students. For a better quality of work, people enjoy the localized service. With no doubt, American students can do it better than anyone else in the world. Also, international students who hold the second or third year OPT extension will also limit opportunities to other international students who just enter the job markets. This will discourage the students studying in U.S. This proposed rule only benefits the new international grads at most recent 2 years. After that, it will be a nightmare since no new grads will enjoy the saturation of job market.. from: 1point3acres.com/bbs

Fifth, our government is built and formed by our people. We are paying taxes years over years. U.S. government should pay every penny on the U.S. residents instead of irrelevant foreign citizen. In a word, they are not our people and we don’t want to spend any penny on them.

The Duration of the STEM Extension should be cancelled. With this comment, I urge you support the U.S. economy by NOT implementing this new rule. Thank you for your consideration and time.
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shuyangsheng 发表于 2015-11-11 07:37:50 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 shuyangsheng 于 2015-11-11 07:38 编辑
googlesde 发表于 2015-11-11 06:30
看看如何反驳这个篇。。。

I would like to submit my comments in response to this proposed rule, re ...

漏洞百出啊。。。.鐣欏璁哄潧-涓浜-涓夊垎鍦

“Most of students who just graduate from school and want this extension are not well-trained or rich-experience technical employees. From a local business perspective, companies are looking for rich-experience and well-communicated technical employees.

-- It's a common sense that company needs veterans as well as fresh grads. Senior engineers are definitely more productive but also more expensive, it would be a very unwise decision for any company to hire experienced engineers only.

"nternational students can’t stay as long as U.S. residents unless they can gain H1B visas. No matter how long this extension is, the issue won’t be solved and companies won’t be able to gain lots of benefits from training the new international grads"
. 鍥磋鎴戜滑@1point 3 acres
-- increase H1b cap then.-google 1point3acres

"Second, most of international student employees with OPT don’t pay Social Security taxes and Medicare taxes because the tax exemption from IRS"

-- note that OPT workers also don't get benefits from their social. They only start getting benefits after getting permanent residency.

" According to the U.S. immigration and population growth, U.S. Immigration currently contributes over 2.25 million people to the U.S. population annually. "

-- The annual H1b cap is only 85,000, in which more than 50% are taken by offshore human resource companies that directly ports workers without US education from outside of US. Citing the 2.25milion data is exaggerating the impact of OPT workers.

"For a better quality of work, people enjoy the localized service. With no doubt, American students can do it better than anyone else in the world. "

-- ungrounded argument. There is universal standards for good scientific or engineering practice, IT giants are also expanding internationally. "people enjoy the localized service" is just an emotional judgement.. 涓浜-涓夊垎-鍦帮紝鐙鍙戝竷
鏉ユ簮涓浜.涓夊垎鍦拌鍧.
"Fifth, our government is built and formed by our people. We are paying taxes years over years. U.S. government should pay every penny on the U.S. residents instead of irrelevant foreign citizen. "

-- U.S. is an immigrant country. Besides, the government is NOT spending taxes on OPT and H1b workers. Instead, OPT and H1b workers are paying taxes without any getting much benefits, and will continue to pay taxes if they decided to apply for U.S. citizenship.
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Hulee 发表于 2015-11-12 03:25:56 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 Hulee 于 2015-11-12 04:12 编辑 .鐣欏璁哄潧-涓浜-涓夊垎鍦

我没权力发link,请lz google一下Chapter 2. Higher Education in Science and Engineering,把它加到list里吧。这里有2010年以后美国培养STEM Phd高学历人才的新data,从全世界角度来说美国拥有的STEM phd最多,其中40%是international students。其他各国近年来也你追我赶的培养STEM,老美花那么多人力和奖学金培养的Phd自己不用,把30,000个高学历退回去就变成US的competitors实在是太愚蠢了。

另外建议版主号召大家在comments里贴上attachment。版主找到的这几篇文章都很好,贴上attachment的comments更不会被屏蔽掉吧。
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 楼主| qingbinlee 发表于 2015-11-12 04:12:34 | 显示全部楼层
Hulee 发表于 2015-11-12 03:25.鏈枃鍘熷垱鑷1point3acres璁哄潧
我没权力发link,请lz google一下Chapter 2. Higher Education in Science and Engineering,把它加到list ...

已经加进去了,非常感谢
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luochenstef 发表于 2015-11-19 08:54:53 | 显示全部楼层
刚刚又去发了一条,引用了第一个资源和duke的那条,谢谢楼主和其他提供资源的朋友!
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