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[OPT] 不知道大家有没有注意到John Miano此人的评论

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JESSIE5590 发表于 2015-11-12 06:06:47 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式

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如果从已经po出来的评论里面搜索John Miano,就会搜到他发的五篇连载评论,
http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=ICEB-2015-0002-9797.1point3acres缃
http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=ICEB-2015-0002-9801
http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=ICEB-2015-0002-9802
http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=ICEB-2015-0002-9807
http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=ICEB-2015-0002-9808. Waral 鍗氬鏈夋洿澶氭枃绔,
.鏈枃鍘熷垱鑷1point3acres璁哄潧
其中一条他的论点4. The opt program runs contrary to the purpose of non-immigrant student visas.中他引用了各位的评论来论证我们的移民倾向。

另外还搜到其他评论里别人对他说的话的引用,

John Miano, attorney representing tech workers:

the proposed rule effectively "requires employers and universities to engage in unlawful immigration status discrimination."
"The rule requires these organizations to set up mentoring programs for foreign graduates to work under OPT. However, there is no requirement that American graduates receive the same benefit."

You should read the reports of John Miano who has studied the H-1B visa program intensively in recent years. See his reports listed here: http://cis.org/Miano-Publications
.鐣欏璁哄潧-涓浜-涓夊垎鍦
此人的评论大家需要引起重视,一起围观反驳起来!

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felixstar 发表于 2015-11-13 14:56:56 | 显示全部楼层
水了两贴,以反驳他的部分comment(有些说得在理也确实得承认)。为大家发散思维,大家继续找他的漏洞。
Reponse to John Miano's comments:ICEB-2015-0002-9797;ICEB-2015-0002-9801;ICEB-2015-0002-9802;ICEB-2015-0002-9807;ICEB-2015-0002-9808.

1. Response to "DHS did not consider all the options."

The OPT program has been existing for long time (including STEM & non-STEM). The termination of an existing program would result in significant impact on the students that are already studying in US or have just finished degrees in US, as well as the companies that hired students in OPT for crucial work. If this needs to be re-evaluated, there should be a smooth transition process. For example, it should not be terminated at least within five years (a normal PhD period) to mitigate the impact.. visit 1point3acres.com for more.

2. Response to "The OPT program is a solution in search of a problem."

The introduction of 2008 OPT Rule "may be" due to the loopholes in the H1B visa system. A recent article by New York Times "Large Companies Game H-1B Visa Program, Costing the U.S. Jobs" exactly describes the root cause of this problem. Before the congress fixing the H1B visa loopholes, the US industry requires a solution to maintain the continuity of economic development. Unfortunately there has been a deadlock on fixing the H1B system due to political fights between the two parties, making this ruling a really needed solution to stabilize the labor market.

3. Response to "DHS is just going through the motions in this rulemaking process."
The DHS is fixing its neglect of notice and comment in 2008 Rule. It should be appreciated that DHS is doing everything they can do to reduce the turbulance on labor market, otherwise many companies would fail to hire the qualified employees and have to outsource all jobs.

4. Response to "The OPT program runs contrary to the purpose of non-immigrant student visas".
Again, if the DHS needs to re-evaluate the appropriateness of OPT program, they need to ensure there is a smooth transition process and fix the loopholes in the US work authorization program for foreigners first, to avoid the abrupt interruption of US economy.
. 1point3acres.com/bbs
5. Response to "The proposed rule will make it harder to get H-1B visas":
This may not be true. The difficulty to get H-1B visa is largely not caused by the number of students in US, but the abuse of H-1B system by large outsourcing companies, which not only caused the difficulty for all students in US to get a job or obtain a visa to qualify for the job, but also eventually shift jobs away from US. The international students receiving education in US need to be protected, rather than blamed. . From 1point 3acres bbs

6. Response to "Educational Purpose"
There are indeed educational purpose for the OPT program. I myself found the industry working experience significantly deepened my understanding of the research topic that I worked on campus. This is because: (1) The academic world in general do not have the advantage of obtaing real data; (2)Students usually could not obtain the state-of-the-art studying materials or tools, which are usually proprietary information in the industry. The OPT program indeed benefit foreign students not only learning the theoretical knowledge but also learning the practical skills to deepen the grasp of knowledge and research.-google 1point3acres
鏉ユ簮涓浜.涓夊垎鍦拌鍧.
Again, even if the DHS needs to re-evaluate the appropriateness of OPT program, they need to ensure there is a smooth transition process and fix the loopholes in the US work authorization program for foreigners first, to avoid the abrupt interuption of US economy.
. 鐣欏鐢宠璁哄潧-涓浜╀笁鍒嗗湴
7. Response to "Industry has no expertise to establish mentoring program".
This may not be true. Many companies even have the more appropriate and specialized elites to guide students in practice than the professors in school which are mostly good at theory.

8. Response to "The proposed OPT program runs afoul of anti-discrimination provisions.". From 1point 3acres bbs
This is easy fix that the American students can be entitled the same benefit of mentoring program as well.. from: 1point3acres.com/bbs

9. Response to "The new protections for American workers are useless."
The rule indeed needs to come with a much stricter review of the job offers to avoid the abuse of the program.
10. Response to "The Proposed Rule ignores the impact on American workers and "STEM" graduates."
First of all, there is no evidence showing that half of American graduates in "STEM" fields could not find jobs in "STEM" field. Even it is the fact, it is unclear if this is simply because they choose to find jobs outside the "STEM" field rather than because of the competition with international students. Even if it is due to the competition with international students, it is unclear if American graduates are lacking behind international students in the required skills for the jobs in "STEM" fields.

Second, the comparison with international students and American students actually will stimulate the investment in the elementary education in "STEM" field in US, which is known to be lacking behind than many other countries. Driving international graduates away sounds not a right solution to improve the quality of American education or getting the most advanced skills for the US companies.
-google 1point3acres
11. Response to "The allowance of unemployment on OPT is inconsistent with education and protections for U.S. workers."
This allowance of unemployment can be revised. 鏉ユ簮涓浜.涓夊垎鍦拌鍧.

12. Response to "DHS cannot justify the increased duration of OPT.". 1point3acres.com/bbs
"The average time a new graduate stays at a first job is only 18 months" (not sure where is the source) doesn't mean the required training is only 18 months or the graduate has switched to a different area after 18 months. There are multiple reasons for a new graduate to leave the first job, such as bad company culture, better opportunities or simply personal reasons. The training may be continued with different companies but in a same field. 鏉ユ簮涓浜.涓夊垎鍦拌鍧.

To my experience, without staying on a job for about at least 3 years, one won't have deep understanding about the research project to become a specialist in the field.. 1point3acres.com/bbs

13. Response to "DHS relies on bad information in the proposed rule"
If this is true, DHS may need to better substantiate the conclusion, but this doesn't undermine the need of this proposed rule in the current situation-- broken work-authorization program abused by a few outsourcing companies, but shortage of talents for all rest of companies.

14. Response to "The proposed rule creates national security issues"
With better monitoring of students and reviewing of job offers, this can be avoided.

15. Response to " The proposed rule will discourage Americans to study in technology fields"
This is likely false. The new proposed rule will attract more international talents in STEM field. From my own experience, I learn from someone that are more excellent than myself. I don't think Americans are so easy to be discouraged if the ones remained in US are truly talents. Again, the true issue causing the discourage is the large amount of "non-talents" brought by Indian outsourcing companies who are abusing the H-1B system. Instead, the talented students that study in US should be encouraged to stay. Without the OPT extension ruling or a fix of the H-1B system, the US job market will be filled by these "machine-like" technicians from outsourcing companies, which not only discourage talents to come to US but also discourage Americans to study in these majors.

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guo72 发表于 2015-11-13 09:58:04 | 显示全部楼层
在美国常住OR在美国工作都不能证明一个人打算移民美国。举个栗子:在美国的外交官家属都可以在美国长住而且可以获发EAD合法打工,不代表他们就有意愿移民。简单讲,一个人是否有意愿移民取决于在母国是否有“牢固约束力”(外交官代表外国政府就是他的约束力)而不是他在美国居住工作的事实。F1在来美之前“牢固约束力”已经由签证官认可,所以不能以F1是否用OPT来打工来判断他的移民倾向。反驳完毕
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johnM 发表于 2015-11-12 06:10:17 | 显示全部楼层
he has the first name as mine.....
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qingbinlee 发表于 2015-11-12 06:44:39 | 显示全部楼层
移民倾向这个问题没法辩驳,肯定很多人会在comments里面提到提升到三年利于申请h1。

只training stem国际学生不training stem美国人,好多美国人也提到了,主要就得看dhs如何去表述。给国际学生提供training的可能与给国际学生提供training是有区别的。

这个人没有涉及opt对于留学人数吸引上,这个是重要缺陷,根据我看comments,很多人提到如果没有opt 就不来美国了,这个点可以打击。
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forever2xxx 发表于 2015-11-12 10:46:45 | 显示全部楼层
感觉high level能扯的都扯了 下一步就是要看别人的评论填补漏洞
这个帖子很有启发性!
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AnakinFoxe 发表于 2015-11-12 12:54:08 | 显示全部楼层
来,大家一起逐条反驳
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jeff_xu001 发表于 2015-11-12 13:01:22 | 显示全部楼层
johnM 发表于 2015-11-12 06:10
he has the first name as mine.....

not you? are u sure?

Guess that‘s you in fact. Waral 鍗氬鏈夋洿澶氭枃绔,
. 鐣欏鐢宠璁哄潧-涓浜╀笁鍒嗗湴
anyway,各人都有自己的利益,fair enough
.鏈枃鍘熷垱鑷1point3acres璁哄潧
no offence
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johnM 发表于 2015-11-12 13:10:11 | 显示全部楼层
jeff_xu001 发表于 2015-11-12 13:01
not you? are u sure?

Guess that‘s you in fact
. 鐗涗汉浜戦泦,涓浜╀笁鍒嗗湴
I do not think that John Miano knows Chinese and if I were him, why will I post comments to remind you guys?
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jeff_xu001 发表于 2015-11-12 13:18:47 | 显示全部楼层
johnM 发表于 2015-11-12 13:10
I do not think that John Miano knows Chinese and if I were him, why will I post comments to remind ...

嗯, just coincidence, John M.

sorry for that
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trustyou 发表于 2015-11-12 14:20:58 | 显示全部楼层
第五点其实是我想说的,用数学模型推一下就知道从长远来看(3年以后),stem专业opt是1年还是3年对每个人在实习期内申请到opt的概率不会变的,因为每年吸纳的人数是固定的。当然这建立在两个前提下:1.所有h1b都是由opt的学生申请到。2.每年h1b必然抽签(供小于求)。. 鐣欏鐢宠璁哄潧-涓浜╀笁鍒嗗湴
第一点很明显不成立,因为每年有大量icc公司直接从印度本土搬运员工来工作,第二点取决于每年市场需求情况(更长的OPT可以平衡风险)。主要来说更长的opt是为了和印度icc公司抢名额。并不是说3年了概率就变成3倍。万恶的h1b配额制才是罪魁祸首。
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dabinzi 发表于 2015-11-12 15:17:23 | 显示全部楼层
其实真正应该取消的是H1B,雇主如果需要招聘外国人才,需要直接为其申请绿卡。这是治根的。
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AnakinFoxe 发表于 2015-11-13 01:50:25 | 显示全部楼层
搜索了一下发现这家伙就是cis.org的一个主要的专栏作者。而cis.org就是一个鼓吹减少移民数量的非营利性组织——也就是大家口中的反移民组织。所以他的论点也算是反移民组织的“官方”论点了。

http://cis.org/Miano
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yongmat 发表于 2015-11-13 02:04:42 | 显示全部楼层
实际上这个延长法案对于有移民倾向的留学生不一定是有利的,企业可能一直拖着不办H1B,直到你的opt消耗完,然后他们换新人。
如果他们觉得opt不交税是经济损失,那么他们应该去号召定法案让opt交税,而不是取消opt。
不知道这个可以不可以拿到台面上说。
实际上这个法案如果通过了,最大的受益人就是那些IT企业。
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 楼主| JESSIE5590 发表于 2015-11-13 02:14:57 | 显示全部楼层
AnakinFoxe 发表于 2015-11-13 01:50.鐣欏璁哄潧-涓浜-涓夊垎鍦
搜索了一下发现这家伙就是cis.org的一个主要的专栏作者。而cis.org就是一个鼓吹减少移民数量的非营利性组织 ...

恩,这个家伙算对方boss级别的人了。我们能反驳的点反驳一下,该说的话说到,其他的就当是被科普了一下反移民的人到底在搞些啥了
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chouclee 发表于 2015-11-13 02:58:15 | 显示全部楼层
yongmat 发表于 2015-11-13 02:04. Waral 鍗氬鏈夋洿澶氭枃绔,
实际上这个延长法案对于有移民倾向的留学生不一定是有利的,企业可能一直拖着不办H1B,直到你的opt消耗完, ...

以前十七个月就有拖着不办的,不办跳呗。。。很多大公司给你offer后还没入职就给办了。
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为延期而注册 发表于 2015-11-13 07:55:04 | 显示全部楼层
GRE argrment重现,一条一条来...
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jeff_xu001 发表于 2015-11-13 09:16:11 | 显示全部楼层
dabinzi 发表于 2015-11-12 15:17
其实真正应该取消的是H1B,雇主如果需要招聘外国人才,需要直接为其申请绿卡。这是治根的。

incremental吧, 别想着 fundamental change了,民主国家,各种利益要博弈, compromise的
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金妮韦崽 发表于 2015-11-13 15:15:33 | 显示全部楼层
那些评论里面赤裸裸表明移民倾向的人有点naive啊。。。不知道这个法案的通过和我们发的评论有多大关系,个人认为那些评论是一点帮助都没有的
觉得这人很多方面反而说的有理有据。。。

. 鐗涗汉浜戦泦,涓浜╀笁鍒嗗湴
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