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[选组选Offer] 难题求解:到底是google还是facebook?

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joseph9207 发表于 2016-10-1 12:05:31 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式

2016(7-9月)-[]CS硕士+fresh grad 无实习/全职 - 内推| 码农类全职@Googlefresh grad应届毕业生

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LZ 现在有FB return offer和google new grad offer, compensation差不多; 本来想从了FB毕竟熟悉 但是被大妈recruiter折磨的心累,messager各种已读不回,好感度越来越差,
反观狗狗的recruiter温柔体贴回复及时,每天电话followup, 两家都是快入职和入职后选组, 请各位给支个招。

以下我个人目测的差别
FB 好的地方:engineer相对比较少 做的东西更有impact; 平均年龄小氛围更年轻; 结构更扁平每周五townhall马克活人当面交流;有中餐,冰淇淋的口味更多....
. 涓浜-涓夊垎-鍦帮紝鐙鍙戝竷不好的地方:健身房小,器械少人多;工作节奏应该会更累;对于java码农选择的组太少; 听说会有 一段时间没promote就layoff的制度

谷歌 pros:更好的 worklife balance; 没有layoff更稳定适合养老- -;做啥的都有选择更多;健身房多些但不知道挤不挤
cons : 听说吃饭排队太长要等很久;最近又把中国食堂撤了;印度朋友的比例略高(听说12个VP里8个印度人?)

希望有在两家经验的大侠补充比较给支招!跪谢~

mclover 发表于 2016-10-1 18:25:58 | 显示全部楼层
首先恭喜lz拿到F和G的offer, 选哪个作为起点都不会糟糕到哪儿去。然后是我的观点:组很重要, 组很重要,组很重要。周围有在F和G的朋友,同在一家公司,工作体验真的可以差很多,其中的原因大多就是和组有关: 1.做的东西是不是自己感兴趣的或者有可能感兴趣的 2.一起工作的同事可以互相促进/学习。3.manager nice不nice, 基本上幸福程度和个人职业发展就取决于以上三点吧,至于什么健身房饮品店食堂队伍有多长这个都只是一些附加项,希望lz不要作为主要因素来考虑。

对于第一点, 如何判断,举个例子: 工作之余也会希望看看相关的资料/项目。比如你喜欢front-end, 平时可能你会喜欢逛逛相关社区,觉得某框架不爽还会在github上造造新轮子, 对于新出的技术总会第一时间去关注到等等。当涉及到front-end的领域的topic能够自信并且很有条理地向外行讲清楚来龙去脉。
第二点的话, 和同事交流过程中就能感受到你们的合作是不是互相促进的,有些人你说话他能马上明白,他说话你也能马上明白他的意思,一起做项目很放心,只要定期sync一下就能check好进度,互不用担心对方的进度。有些领域可以互补, 都不吝啬分享自己的经验教训。
第三点,老板关键时候能不能替你说上话,是否关注你的职业发展,为人处事以及和周围同事的关系,这都能看出来一些。
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 楼主| joseph9207 发表于 2016-10-5 08:53:19 | 显示全部楼层
经过找了很多来自两家FT朋友的意见和反馈,LZ 最后选择了Google, 以下是两位分别来自F和G 的朋友的回复,仅供大家参考:

1. 这位是我在FB实习的隔壁桌同事,之前在Google工作的几年的美国大牛,现在Facebook:
“Wow, congratulations

 I think they're broadly pretty similar.

Google is a much bigger company, which has its pros and cons.



The big pros are
1. there's a broader base of knowledge; google has a bigger share of "world class experts" on any given topic than facebook (something of a pattern is that google invents stuff, which facebook will later clone)


2. Tooling at google is much better (e.g. builds are faster because there's a big, well supported build farm; google's code search is much better than facebook's, a lot of "glue" problems are just solved at google, but a pain at facebook)



The big cons are


1. Bureaucracy; when I left google, I was on a team I didn't like in a department that felt stifling. Everybody agreed it was a bad situation, but there were too many hurdles to do an internal transfer; it was easier for me to find a team I liked by quitting and going to facebook than it was to do an internal transfer.


2. Apathy. A lot of google people sort of just only care about working on their area of interest, and twist it until that looks like it reaches some corporate goal.


A good example of this is the performance CPU profiling people. Right now, they're working on adapting the internal CPU tools to the cloud, because everyone cares about cloud.

But cloud customers *don't care* about CPU by and large; they care about latency. But google has a cloud CPU team (because that's what the people involved wanted to work on), but not a cloud latency team (which is what customers would actually want).


.鐣欏璁哄潧-涓浜-涓夊垎鍦
There are some cultural differences; facebook is younger on average, and cares more about doing stuff fast than doing it right.


Google has more of a culture of dissent; it's pretty common to make fun of the executives, or criticize product decisions internally.


At facebook, I've never heard anyone criticize Zuck or Sheryl, and it's very frowned upon to say another product has done something dumb.



I think if I were to rank it, I'd say that Google is probably better on average, but that team fit is more important than company

.鐣欏璁哄潧-涓浜-涓夊垎鍦
(I'm much, much, much happier here than I was at google).鐣欏璁哄潧-涓浜-涓夊垎鍦


(Unfortunately, new hires have very little control over which team they end up on)


I think that's my thoughts broadly.

I'm also happy to answer if you have anything specific you're curious about.

 “
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2015fallcser 发表于 2016-10-1 14:02:26 | 显示全部楼层
mark这个贴  

对于大公司来说最大的concern就是害怕自己做一些可有可无的事情 然后划水混日子
很想知道怎么最大化自己的成长  至于薪酬福利  都是第二位的  -google 1point3acres

希望更多大牛来回答这个帖子
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seriousamlqz 发表于 2016-10-1 13:22:46 | 显示全部楼层
我会选Google.

食堂,健身房什么都是细枝末节,我觉得Google技术上还是有很多可以学习的东西。平时的设计文档,各种培训课程非常齐全,内部的各种工具和框架也十分强大。MapReduce,GFS, bigtable再到比较新的Spanner,Google Brain等等,不夸张的说这些技术领先外面的Open Source好几年,而且只要你愿意学,这些所有的代码和文档你都可以找到,还能直接找到作者交流。比如可以看到Jeff Dean早期设计的那些系统的文档,代码,所有设计方案的优劣取舍,等等。我觉得这些学习机会,是Google最吸引人的地方。大家都愿意花时间,用最好的方法把事情做对,这样的过程中new grad能学到很多。

至于WORK life balance,这完全是个人的选择。有人晚上周末都加班,一年多就升级的;也有人天天很早回家,混日子不想升级的。Google提供给你这样的选择,上进一些的可以多干活,多拿奖金Refresh,早升级;愿意享受生活的,也能找到不怎么忙的组。至少我现在的组就挺忙,大老板经常晚上周末还回邮件;但是另外一方面也没人逼你必须晚上干活,干得慢点也不会有人催,总之想干活总是能有事情让你干。. 1point 3acres 璁哄潧

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lostincam 发表于 2016-10-1 12:31:34 | 显示全部楼层
Google.鐣欏璁哄潧-涓浜-涓夊垎鍦
更好的 worklife balance.鏈枃鍘熷垱鑷1point3acres璁哄潧
You could even do your own startup with more time
why work more for employer with similar salary?
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 楼主| joseph9207 发表于 2016-10-1 13:45:47 | 显示全部楼层
seriousamlqz 发表于 2016-10-1 13:22. Waral 鍗氬鏈夋洿澶氭枃绔,
我会选Google.

食堂,健身房什么都是细枝末节,我觉得Google技术上还是有很多可以学习的东西。平时的设 ...

谢谢你的回复,非常中肯。确实google的技术感觉更强大,我听说一个说法google是technology driven, FB是product driven, 确实觉得FB更像startup,更加短平快,在技术文档和training方面稍显欠缺。
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ypw999 发表于 2016-10-1 18:29:15 | 显示全部楼层
对于FG这种公司,只要个人上进,追求自己最大化的成长,都是很好的平台。祝福各位同学!
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 楼主| joseph9207 发表于 2016-10-1 23:59:33 | 显示全部楼层
mclover 发表于 2016-10-1 18:25
首先恭喜lz拿到F和G的offer, 选哪个作为起点都不会糟糕到哪儿去。然后是我的观点:组很重要, 组很重要,组很 ...

谢谢你的回复,选组确实很重要,毕竟工作后的至少一两年内 自己的career发展和team的发展息息相关。从这个角度看好像FB略胜一筹,毕竟可以有6个礼拜bootcamp,实地了解各个组的情况和工作氛围; 而google只是在入职前电话做team match,感觉不是很人性化...
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mooc 发表于 2016-10-2 01:28:51 | 显示全部楼层
lz好牛啊,你fb实习结束后准备google面试准备了多久?能分享一下都怎么准备的吗?
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wcyz666 发表于 2016-10-2 02:00:21 | 显示全部楼层
关注一下这个帖子,想去Google里面比较忙比较累的组。。。
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bumbing 发表于 2016-10-2 11:03:47 | 显示全部楼层
同关注,最近match了adwords。。。还在纠结要不要放弃fb。。。
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 楼主| joseph9207 发表于 2016-10-2 12:53:07 | 显示全部楼层
bumbing 发表于 2016-10-2 11:03
同关注,最近match了adwords。。。还在纠结要不要放弃fb。。。

请问你是两个offer都accept了双向行进吗?敢问accept之后再毁约会不会太伤 以至于以后都休想跳回去了?
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haveto 发表于 2016-10-2 13:13:12 | 显示全部楼层
mclover 发表于 2016-10-1 18:25 鏉ユ簮涓浜.涓夊垎鍦拌鍧.
首先恭喜lz拿到F和G的offer, 选哪个作为起点都不会糟糕到哪儿去。然后是我的观点:组很重要, 组很重要,组很 ...

说的很对 但是悖论是 在你没有选组之前,所有这三点,你都不会知道!! 咋办~~ 求破破破破!!><
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chopinzwz 发表于 2016-10-2 14:36:20 | 显示全部楼层
同关注。我也在选择g和f,我算是google产品的脑残粉所以情感上倾向于g…但现在在地里g被大家描述成了纯养老公司,学不到东西… 希望楼主最后把自己的选择和理由更新下呀
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seriousamlqz 发表于 2016-10-2 23:37:06 | 显示全部楼层
chopinzwz 发表于 2016-10-2 14:36
同关注。我也在选择g和f,我算是google产品的脑残粉所以情感上倾向于g…但现在在地里g被大家描述成了纯养老 ...
. Waral 鍗氬鏈夋洿澶氭枃绔,
没觉得Google是养老公司,混不混是个人的选择。
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 楼主| joseph9207 发表于 2016-10-5 08:57:21 | 显示全部楼层
这位是在Google工作了快四年的Senior Engineer, 是本科和研究生的校友,很感谢他的input. Waral 鍗氬鏈夋洿澶氭枃绔,
. visit 1point3acres.com for more.
"Hi, I am sending this with my company computer, so pardon me that I reply in English. .1point3acres缃
First and foremost, congratulations on the offers! 鏉ユ簮涓浜.涓夊垎鍦拌鍧.
They are both great companies, and I am sure you will have incredible time working for either of them.
I have not spent time at Facebook, so I cannot speak about what it's like to work at FB.
Our team have a couple engineers from FB, and they have good words about their prior experience.  Personally, I would of course encourage you to join Google.
For one, there are lots of opportunities here at Google, and I frankly think Google is the most technologically advanced and endeavoring company.  Also, I think as a new grad, if he's joining a big company (both FB and Google are big companies now), as opposed to joining a startup, it oftentimes means that he values the resource provided by big companies that would otherwise be very limited in small startups.
For me, the most valuable thing a big company can provide is the how it can make you a top-notched engineer/manager in several years' time, if you put in the effort. Google does a great job in organizing its knowledge for all Googlers to access.
. 1point 3acres 璁哄潧Think about Google search for internal knowledge. They run very good career training programs (from tehnical programs to public speech programs) that help you to get to the next stage of your career. . more info on 1point3acres.com
Of course, at the end of the day, find where your passion is. Google and Facebook work on very different things. I like working with infrastructure, and Google has the best Cloud in terms of performance and pricing. I know cloud is gonna be BIG in 10 years, so I choose to stay at Google, because I want to be part of cloud. So ask yourself do what's gonna be big in 10 years? Do you have passion in that? If the two answers match, follow that."
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chopinzwz 发表于 2016-10-5 10:06:04 | 显示全部楼层
谢谢楼主的分享。我最后也选G了。
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