【英文读书会/每日持续更新】跟我一起读战争与和平 Tolstoy with Me

我看了看推特上的几个讨论不同版本的thread。貌似Pevear&Volokhonsky版（A Public Space推荐用的）比较literal但dry，但母语者说更接近原文，注释也很多。Maude版是比较readable的（竟然lol），可能因为年代久远，所以现在会觉得一些表达过时。然后Briggs大家都爱哈哈哈哈。
至于喜欢读哪个版本真的见仁见智。
还有一篇讲P&V，Garnett和Maude版的：
https://fivebooks.com/book/war-and-peace-by-leo-tolstoy/

zuragh 发表于 2020/06/17 00:23:03
我看了看推特上的几个讨论不同版本的thread。貌似Pevear&Volokhonsky版（A Public Space...

是的～的确是见仁见智 还有个我觉得跟着出版社走总是没错的 penguin的和oxford的都不会差。
你开始重新看了吗？跟我一起二刷吧哈哈

Udolpho 发表于 2020-6-16 22:52
没有没有 - 比喻不当🤣 我的意思是 萝卜白菜，各有所爱。自然不会是只有一个目的，就算是同一个人 ...

BTW, 我对比着又看了几段，感觉越来越有意思，不知道能不能借楼主帖子po一下？当然我的关注点是不同译本的语言差异，可能和楼主的初衷不同。不过我想如果新开帖的话，估计更没人看了（哭）

aliibaba 发表于 2020-6-16 20:13
BTW, 我对比着又看了几段，感觉越来越有意思，不知道能不能借楼主帖子po一下？当然我的关注点是不同译本 ...

哈哈我这儿也没人🤣 写给自己看多过写给别人看吧。因为主题不太一样，感觉歪楼了。。。你要不重新开贴？等你开了我去给你加米，然后把你的帖子地址贴到我一楼补充内容里面。

Volume I, Part I, Chapter 22 - 25


I think it’s always fun to find out what happened in the previous chapters indirectly from gossip in later ones. We saw the rest of Pierre’s night with the bear before and now we see in Julie’s letter what came after the fateful night of the old count’s death.


Julie is a little fake - don’t you think? She complains about her “poor heart” and her poignant troubles of separating from her crush (Nikolay Rostov), but I get the sense that she is really enjoying life in Moscow. It’s also interesting to see the difference in opinions on Pierre between the two friends - Julie thinks that Pierre is a “miserable specimen of manhood” but Marya defends him and says that he has an “excellent heart”. But Marya also thinks everybody is kind, even and especially her severe father, who is beyond any reproach. I wonder if she really thinks so, or is she just lying to herself.


I do feel sorry for Marya. I don’t know if she feels sorry for herself - maybe not. I think she is aware that there is an outside world, without her dreaded math lessons, without her demanding and almost cruel father, where a girl her age will pass her time more like her friend Julie, enjoying young men’s attention and reading books other than the religious ones. We see multiple mentions of her radiant eyes that light up her whole face and transform her from plain to beautiful, especially during the parting scene with her brother.


We haven’t seen war firsthand yet, but the talk of war is always present. The old prince probably keeps up with current events to make himself feel important. He is still clearly stuck on past glories.
“Mikhail Ivanovich had no knowledge of a time when ‘you and I’ had said any such thing about Napoleon…” The prince installs people at his dinner table as tools to facilitate conversation.
“Since time began everybody has beaten the Germans.” One couldn’t help but find it ironic, knowing what we know now.
. 1point3acres

And so Part I ends, and Andrey goes to war.

Quote of the Day -
“Like everyone else’s, her face took on a strained, artificial and disagreeable expression the moment she looked at herself in the mirror.”

Side Note -
Hoorayyyy you’re done with Part I!!! I hope that wasn’t too bad 🤣. Congrats and keep it up! 第一部分看完啦！加油 - 你能翻过这座大山！

.--
Next time -
Volume I, Part II, Chapter 1 - 3

Volume I, Part II, Chapter 1 - 3


Back in middle school we used to have these classes where officials from the local education bureau would come to visit. It was all a show of course - we would practice multiple times before the visit, and all the interactions during class were scripted, from who would raise their hands to the exact questions and answers to be posed. The opening scene of Part II feels just like that. The general is trying to get these soldiers who marched hundreds of miles from Russia to be as presentable as possible, “better to bow too low than not low enough” so he thinks. This is the beginning of the “war” part of the book, and I didn’t expect it to be quite so comical. What made it even funnier was that we found out that the commander-in-chief didn’t want to see the soldiers in pristine conditions at all. He wanted them as shabby as possible so that he can say we can’t march quickly to join your (the Austrian’s) army because look at the condition we’re in right now!


Another interesting thing I found while reading this part was that singers and drummers travelled with the army. I never expected that.


“The regiment stirred itself like a bird setting its feathers…” Tolstoy had a way with metaphors.


We see an extension of the drawing-room politics here in the army. How the attitude of the general changed towards his caption and Dolokhov when he realized that they knew the commander-in-chief.


Speaking of, we meet one of the first real historical figures in the book - Kutuzov. “Then a wrinkle rippled across it like a wave, and left his forehead smooth.” This is his reaction to the defeat of the Austrian army. (插一句中文，这句话让我想起一句中文我觉得很贴切， “胸有惊雷而面如平湖者，当拜上将军。”）


Quote of the Day -


“...it was evident that he was enjoying his role as a subordinate even more than his role as a commander.”

Next Time -


Volume I, Part II, Chapter 4 - 7

Udolpho 发表于 2020/06/17 00:36:59
是的～的确是见仁见智 还有个我觉得跟着出版社走总是没错的 penguin的和oxford的都不会差。
你开始重新看了吗？...

我我……我最近列了读资本论的计划🤦‍♀️想换个脑子烧烧，估计没有经历二刷了
但感觉有人陪着一起读还挺有动力的……哎呀我好纠结

Volume I, Part II, Chapter 4 - 7


I thought the scene between Rostov and the officer who stole the money was pretty intense, and I’m kind of surprised that he didn’t bring the money back - maybe because of pity? The argument at the same night was a little confusing at first, then I realized from the conversation that Rostov must have told on the stealing officer, and he did so in front of other officers. There is again politics - he now needs to apologize because once everyone knows there is a thief in the regiment, it won’t be good for their reputation: this is something that never occurred to Rostov.


I recommend reading the war part with the maps you can find at the back of the book, it makes a lot more sense with different names of villages and cities mentioned in the story and you can get a better sense of where they are. What struck me first on the marching scene is how beautiful the scenery is. The rain, buildings in the distance, pine trees on the bank of the river. And then - the enemy troops already in sight. It’s interesting to think about back then how close the two opposing armies were in physical distance. Now with all the technology, wars are seldom fought in as close quarters as back in the 1800s. But in Tolstoy’s time, soldiers were still using swords, they still rode horses, although they had guns and cannonballs, they didn't go all that far. There were no instant communication tools - no radios, which didn’t come till WWII, which drastically changed how wars were fought. When the general had a command, somebody had to ride somewhere to deliver the message, just like Nesvitsky did in our story here.


In the middle of the 3rd paragraph of Chapter 7, there is a long metaphor about soldiers crossing the bridge - what a vivid picture. I thought that was masterly done. I think my overall impression of the Russian army, and especially after the crossing-of-bridge scene is that it’s kind of mess...What do you think?

Quote of the Day:


“At that moment the sun came fully out from behind the clouds and the wonderful bang of that single shot, melting into blazing sunlight, gave them all a feeling of fun and high spirits.”

. 1point3acres
Next time:
Volumn I, Part II, Chapter 8 - 9

zuragh 发表于 2020-6-18 23:19
我我……我最近列了读资本论的计划🤦‍♀️想换个脑子烧烧，估计没有经历二刷了
但感觉 ...

哈哈哈换个也不错~换本书换个心情 加油读哈哈

Volume I, Part II, Chapter 8 - 9


We see the first action between the two troops and Rostov’s reaction to it. He is obviously eager to prove himself, probably like many young soldiers who are experiencing war for the first time. He keeps thinking about how the colonel is trying to test him...which really is not the case at all. In his head, everything is about himself. Then we see his transition from extreme excitement and happiness to confusion and panic (“there was no one to slash at with his sword” and “he had forgotten to bring any straw”) and eventually to the dreadful fear of death - “And the dread of death and the stretchers, and the loss of all sunshine and life, everything fused into a single sensation of sickening horror.” During this burning-of-the-bridge, when the French got closer, and I too with a sinking heart thought for sure Rostov was either going to get injured or die. But they got out just in time. There was a breath of relief at the end of that chapter.


Andrey also experienced something like a change of emotions. From previous chapters I think we get the sense that he is a man who places great importance on honor and glory, and this is probably one of the reasons he came to war, it offers him a sense of purpose in life. War so far has suited him way better than his marriage did. He gets this sweet gig of delivering the news of victory to the Austrian Emperor. He is excited because he feels like the Emperor would be very happy to see him and hear the news. However, he gets a very cold reception at the palace. They don’t seem happy to see him or hear about the victory at all...why is that? We shall see.


Quote of the Day -

. check 1point3acres for more.
Today we have a longer one because I feel this paragraph is so compelling and the emotions within the lines so real it’s really hard to pass up. Tolstoy sees through every soldier’s heart. Reading it almost gives a sensation of being hypnotized.


“One step across that dividing line, so like the one between the living and the dead, and you enter an unknown world of suffering and death. What will you find there? Who will be there? There, just beyond that field, that tree, that sunlit roof? No one knows, and yet you want to know. You dread crossing that line, and yet you still want to cross it. You know sooner or later you will have to go across and find out what is there beyond it, just as you must inevitably find out what lies beyond death. Yet here you are, fit and strong, carefree and excited, with men all around you just the same -- strong, excited and full of life.”

Next time -


Volume I, Part II, Chapter 10 - 14