【英文读书会/每日持续更新】跟我一起读战争与和平 Tolstoy with Me

zuragh 发表于 2020-6-15 07:10
竟然！我完全没注意到😂打仗的行军路线啥的都有点一知半解。因为免费版本完全没有注释和背景科普 ...

是的 我第一次读的时候没看地图也是觉得很迷。地图真的很给力。
可以搞一本penguin classisc那个版本（就是我照片那个版本）看看。那个版本后面也有人物名单之类的。
来二刷~ 哈哈
我现在一边搞这个笔记一边在看anna karenina，这个我买的也是penguin的，是P&V的翻译，目前觉得也不错。

Volume I, Part I, Chapter 15 - 17


Have you noticed how much time Tolstoy spends on describing people’s faces? It’s always extremely detailed, and he lingers on one or two very prominent features on the person’s face so as to make it unforgettable. Through the descriptions of the faces, you can almost form your opinion of the character without ever hearing them speak. In previous chapters, there was the little princess with her upper lip, Dolokhov with his mouth, the youngest princess at the Bezukhov’s house and her mole just over her lip that made her lovelier still. Here we see a description again on Shinshin’s face.


The Rostovs demonstrate how an extravagant dinner party works. We first start in the drawing-room, the guests talk in small groups, probably starving because they keep glancing at the dining room doors to see when they can actually start eating. Pierre again is an embarrassment and not aware of it. Really...can somebody help this guy? He needs help. Then everybody goes into the dining room. Everybody is seated just right - we don’t see them working on a seating chart but you know somebody had labored over this chart. Who is sitting by whom is serious business, for conversation at the dinner table is surely one of the main barometers of how the dinner party is going. In A Gentleman in Moscow, the protagonist used to be a master at seating arrangements. You have to walk a fine line between lively chat and hostile debate.


A detail I particularly enjoyed is at the end of chapter 15, about the frustration of the German tutor. The poor guy didn’t even want to drink the wine, he just wanted to know what it was - but the label was so cruelly hidden from him behind a napkin.


After dinner we go back to the drawing room or sitting room or library to play cards or dance. The count’s dance to Daniel Cooper has to be the highlight of the night. Even the servants were there to cheer him on. This is one of the happiest moments in the Rostovs’ house.


Quote of the Day -
“The visitors try to guess from these glances who or what may be holding things up -- some important relative late in arriving, or some dish not yet ready?”


Next time -
Volume I, Part I, Chapter 18 - 21

各人觉得俄语英译系列名著Constance Garnett的译本感觉不错，不过也没有横向对比就是了。（这么说来是不是可以趁机做一些对比了？话说我对看剧情倒不是那么感兴趣，希望有机会对比译本看一看。不过最近深陷罗马历史巨坑，不知道啥时候抽的出身。。只好用原来文学老师的话安慰自己“名著可以用来养老看”，哈哈）---------------
补充：
OK 刚才干脆把Maude， Garnett和Briggs都入了。我的关注点就是这么奇特LOL

aliibaba 发表于 2020-6-15 20:39
各人觉得俄语英译系列名著Constance Garnett的译本感觉不错，不过也没有横向对比就是了。（这么说来是不是 ...

其实我有听说她的译本不是太好。。。尤其是anna karenina。可以横向比较一下。我看过不同译本的某些选段的对比，的确是觉得briggs>maude>garnett. 这个自然也有个人爱好的因素。再插一句 - 其实不同的译本自然有些区别，但是我觉得因为tolstoy并不是完全以语言取胜，而是在剧情，在人物，在透过这些看到的人性，不管是哪个译本都是可以看的，不必太纠结。

Udolpho 发表于 2020-6-16 21:20
其实我有听说她的译本不是太好。。。尤其是anna karenina。可以横向比较一下。我看过不同译本的某些选段 ...

我稍微看了几段，“好不好”是一个比较主管的判断了。如果要说差别的话，briggs的翻译最像是用英语转述，所以看起来英语行文可能更流畅一些。另外两位可能受原文结构限制更多，所以感觉不是很自然，当然也有可能就是像表达这种异域风情。

其实看译本本身就不太追求极致文笔了，所谓"Poetry is what gets lost in translation"。我关注译本的原因其实是像对比不同译者在表达相同意思的时候有何侧重。

比如第一章第一段有一句警告的话。
Brigss:
"No, I give you a fair warning"
Maude:
"But I warn you,"
Garnett:
"But I provide you with a warning"

. .и后两者都用了“But”这个转折连词，而briggs用了"No", 感觉语气有点硬了，而且Briggs用了一个"fair"，这个应该是译者自己体会的一种细微感情在里面。而且Garnett明显用了一个啰嗦的说法，有一种老学究的姿态，当然到底和人物身份是否匹配，就要继续看了。

所以我说我的关注点很偏，哈哈。其实我想看剧情的话，就去sparknote找每一章的summary了。

aliibaba 发表于 2020/06/16 22:29:26
我稍微看了几段，“好不好”是一个比较主管的判断了。如果要说差别的话，briggs的翻译最像是用英语转述，所以看起来英语行...

啊我觉得如果剧情用sparknotes看的话 就。。。。defeat its purpose 因为看书不仅仅是看语言，而是看书的时候带给我们的感受和领悟。这也是我写读书笔记的原因。语言只是形式，剧情只是载体，如果只单独看任何一个方面都不能达到阅读的真正目的吧。当然，每个人阅读的初衷不一样，见仁见智吧。
这就相当于，吃饭是为了饱腹还是享受的区别吧。

Udolpho 发表于 2020-6-16 22:36
啊我觉得如果剧情用sparknotes看的话 就。。。。defeat its purpose 因为看书不仅仅是看语言，而是看书的 ...

>>吃饭是为了饱腹还是享受的区别吧.
隐隐感觉到被鄙视了（笑哭）
我觉得更像是有人喜欢吃烤鸭，而我就喜欢吃当佐料的葱？
我非常佩服你做这么多笔记和总结，这的确是比较主流的阅读方式了。

至于“阅读的真正目的”嘛，更像一个哲学命题了。我觉得，阅读为什么一定要有目的呢，什么又是“真正”的目的，如果有，它有且仅有一个吗？

哈哈，匿了匿了

aliibaba 发表于 2020-6-16 08:47
>>吃饭是为了饱腹还是享受的区别吧.
隐隐感觉到被鄙视了（笑哭）
我觉得更像是有人喜欢吃烤鸭，而我就 ...

没有没有 - 比喻不当🤣 我的意思是 萝卜白菜，各有所爱。自然不会是只有一个目的，就算是同一个人，读不同的书也是不同的目的，甚至读同一本书也是不同的目的。我看名著，也看恶俗言情，我觉得名著文笔好，我觉得有的言情耽美网文也非常惊艳。

Volume I, Part I, Chapter 18 - 21


What an exciting act! There is conflict, there is excitement, there is intrigue. This scene on its own can probably be on stage.


The game has begun and all the players in their places. Two camps: Prince Vasily and the oldest princess, Anna Mikhaylovna and Pierre. Pierre is probably the only one who doesn’t know what’s going on. Reading it is exciting - who will win? All these maneuvers of sweet talk to the potential heir or heiress, sneaking into the house from back staircases, going in and out of the dying man’s room. As Anna Mikhaylovna says: the moment of crisis has arrived, and she is ready. They are there not to mourn but to do business.


It’s painful to watch the ceremony because probably not one person in that room truly felt sorry and sad for the dying. The description of the helpless arm at the end, before Pierre left the room, is probably the most pathetic thing. Tolstoy again went into details on the face description of the dying count, which to me is more repulsive than regretful. It is also almost infuriating that Pierre is following everything Anna Mikhaylovna says. He was being told to “be a man” three times by Anna.


The climax comes when the oldest princess confronts Anna Mikhaylovena, and they fight over the will. The intensity in the air is almost tangible, and these women are on the verge of breaking all pretense. Prince Vasily and his twitching cheeks we got very familiar with in these chapters. This is probably the most true we have seen of these characters yet - out of the drawing rooms, they are almost savage with their raw desires.


And...Anna Mikhaylovena wins! Isn’t it almost disgusting how she later retells the story of Pierre on the bedside of his dying father, who he barely knows? She is so fake. I gotta say this woman is a piece of work. Then again, when you think about it - she is a single mother, already passed her best years, poor with no income and no connections. What is she to do? She is the product of her circumstances.


. From 1point 3acres bbsQuote of the Day -


Pierre resumed his innocent, symmetrical pose as an Egyptian statue, obviously ruing the fact that his big clumsy body took up so much space, and doing his utmost mentally to reduce himself in size.


Next time -
Volume I, Part I, Chapter 22 - 25