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整理下级别较高者的看法
本帖最后由 order66executor 于 2013-5-9 11:49 编辑
Sergey B.Co-founder/CTO at AmstatzIt all depends on your skill set. If the latest technology on your resume is from 10 years ago, then yes, you most likely will not find a job at a cutting edge tech startup. However, if you keep up with the industry (as any professional should, regardless of what that industry is) and at least brush up on new technologies as they emerge, you'll have much more to offer to an employer than a recent college graduate with zero real world experience. Most colleges do not even teach how to use debuggers!
Camea K.RN,BSN Hospice-Palliative Patient Advocate, President Keene Business Development CorpSo, whether we like it or not, it’s a tough industry, and the bonus is entitled to employees who keep themselves marketable: Summary: 1. Move up the ladder 2. Become an entrepreneur 3. Keep your skills current 4. Watch out for newbies who have new knowledge and skills that surpass your own 5. Programmers-it’s a stacked decked (but here I must add I’ve met some new comers that have blown me away!!) If you’re an entry-level worker learn how to make your products shine above the experienced in the field. There is room and opportunity for all but sometimes you have to squeeze in and make a flash appearance with astounding outcomes in order to get notice or backing. My additive: Stay positive-> it is an ever-changing world. (Stated from a girl who loves Austin and all things tech. You all rock the world. When you are ready have some new design ideas for end of life care. Best to all!!!!!!!!!! Camea
James M.Chief Architect at Hewlett-PackardAge becomes less relevant or even detectable in a remote worker culture...
Bala S.Chairman, President & CEO at Synergism, Inc. and Owner, Synergism, Inc.Isn't poverty an outcome of the failures in the delivery of services by the medium-of-exchanges sectors of any economy? Is monetization the only route to eliminate chronic poverty?
Adrian B.Chief Officer at Adur Voluntary ActionExcellent post, such a waste of talent and experience amongst those who are only slightly older.....
Delron M.CEO at Delron Mabaka Groupthe businesses need to introduce interactive platforms of experience among the youngest and the old employees, otherwise we will have hi tech generation without the right experiences and thats a recipe for disaster of a developing economy
Susan A.President, FA Capital Lands Inc.Right on the money - sad but true. The old and the young are most vulnerable in today's workplace.
Steve P.VP CIO COO experienced w/ ERP & quality system implementation, IT, procurement, asset management metrology & logisticsInteresting that this article chooses to summarize the value of individuals as solely reliant on technical proficiency. Yet, time and time again, I have found that the most valuable personnel in ANY role, are those who are capable of effectively integrating their technical proficiency with knowledge of our business, customers, procedures and other value add.
Sue K.CO at SWTrainsIn an office of 3 static ticket clerks & 2 relief clerks 3 are graduate ex-programmers over 55 (2 been there since b4 age 55) 1 also has a masters. The other 2 clerks have no post 16 education & 2 of us ex IT r of junior grade 2 them. Oh & I found IT 2 hard 2 get back into IT at 40, not that it's easy post 30. Moral here is 2 plan financially for early retirement & 2nd career.
Sarah A.President at ElFenixEnterprises.comHas anyone noticed the 'cultural' problem here? In an era where the old are not respected, are ignored and thrown away. There's a whole baby boomer generation alive and well for many years to come. What are we doing with that? Just let them golf till they die? This is a huge, untapped market! If we can just be innovative, we have everything at our fingertips: a workforce and a clientele!
Vijay P.Sr Vice President at Puravankara Projects LimitedI think the concept of employers and employees is due for retirement. An old concept lingering on, biased heavily on the employers. What the employees get is a fixed salary (plus some miniscule bonus at places) per month irrespective of the output they produce. But for this salary, they are almost bonded for life - fixed timings, fixed holidays, fixed work, fixed branding. Who says a bank employee cannot be a programmer, or a construction worker cannot do interior design. But the employers brand them, and force them to be a construction worker, or a programmer or a banker for ever. An employer (business) on the other hand is free to choose the vertical he wants, the timing he wants, the luxury he wants etc. There is need to break this vicious cycle. The concept of fixed salaries, fixed work and fixed timings needs to be abolished. There needs to be a contract of equals. You get paid for what you deliver. That will lead to the development of people who would not be unemployed at the middle age, but will be sought out for the multiple skills they developed (because of the ability to choose the type of work).
Jose C.Assistant Vice President at Knight Capital GroupGreat article. If anything it helped me to prepare for the future. As a 30 year old who is still 7 years fresh in his career, I love technology, but know that my younger coworkers will have an edge on me someday. What can I do? With age comes wisdom, and I can only hope to move into a more senior or leadership role 5 or 10 years down the road. But, I am enjoying the learning and growing I am experiencing along the way. Question: How many young C++ guys do you see coming out of college? It's still a vibrant software community, but most of these days I'm seeing many young Java and Big Data professionals coming out of college. Who will maintain the C/C++ source that most technology is built upon these days? Sounds like an opportunity to me... :)
Oscar Renzo G.Chief SolutionistDepends on the company and its culture I think. I personally look up to the older guys or those with lots of real experience because they understand software and systems on a whole other level.
James G.PresidentCommon sense says to always keep your skills current. However, only a very small fraction of the workforce is involved with the digital technology industry. The rest of us have to use what it produces as tools and whether we like it or not and until really free open systems come of age we are stuck with annual if not bi-annual changes in all of the tools we use...not so much because of improved technology but more because the big driver is to generate sales and short term stock value. Technical improvements seem to be dealt out one card at a time for a high price..." the next big thing syndrome" ...thereby quickly turning last years tools into antiques. Is this a sustainable model?
Bob H.Chief Technology Officer at PixsanFrom my point of view I think many of the people here offering exceptions are just proving the rule. I have met many mature engineers who are perfectly happy where they are, clocking in on the dot and clocking out equally punctually. Nothing wrong with that but these people are not looking for progression and in many cases it is a pain to get them to learn something new. On one occasion I saw an experienced engineer take early retirement rather than go through business change. But it isn't so much a characteristic of the age, it is about the pool of unexploited potential is smaller as the pool gets older. If you haven't reached your potential by 50 you are an exception.
Jan J.CEO of OozouI think some of this is the misconception that passion for a subject is inversely proportional to age. I wouldn't care if a developer was 60 so long as his/her passion remained strong and he/she was still learning every day and they were still looking at everything with an open mind.
Bob G.Publisher at CTOvision.com and CTO, Crucial Point LLCI did not want to read this. But your observations are important ones and logic is compelling. All of us need to be prepared for uncertainty, especially highly paid middle aged coders.
John B.President at Shore Communications Inc. and Owner, Shore Communications Inc.Yeah, that. Being valuable doesn't always mean being paid.
Halil Ö.CTO at Nette Interactive"Why would any company pay a computer programmer with out-of-date skills a salary of say $150,000, when it can hire a fresh graduate — who has no skills — for around $60,000?" - You don't need to be old to get unemployed if you don't know your stuff. Also 9-5 is not the only job opportunity.
Biswajit (Bish) C.Vice President at PremienceThe problem I see is more in definition - What is really a "Tech industry"? The described phenomenon is a lot more visible in IT services industry than in Product Development industry as 80% of the outsourced IT services work have very limited real technology implications. Those working in real technical capacity, have less reasons to worry. However, except sales career, running downhill is true in all roles - it will be wrong to attach it only to programmers. Thought provoking write up even if somebody does not agree to all the points........
Munawar A.CEO & Chief Software ArchitectComplex topic, however, it's pretty much true.
Andre W.Chief Technical Officer at RFK Technology Services, LLCThat was very good advice. From once being in the military and a fifty year old tech guy.
Kim T.Chief Information Officer at Guthy-RenkerExcellent performers are always in demand. Focusing on age only serves as a distraction from what needs to be worked on.
Ed M.Vice President & Environmental Risk Officer at Sterling Bank dba Sonoma BankCold hard truth.
Benjamin J.President/CEO and Co-Founder Quartesian LLCI would recommend to anyone in these circumstances to seriously consider becoming an entrepreneur. The years you put in working are valuable. You have plenty of domain knowledge. Put it to good use. However, it requires serious self-evaluation, that is do you have the "entrepreneurial gene", but if you do and you have the desire, this is a move you won't regret.
John R.Chief Advisor at TrilenniumI've helped hire over 300 coders... education and project experience was everything. Youth and inexperience led often to bad results so personally I liked grey hair on the projects :)
Joshua F.CTO - Chief Technology Officer At Plug and Play Media Consulting / Liquid DataBold! I like it.
David M.Chief Information Officer at St. Ann's CommunityThe message isn't new: "Be a life-long learner". What is new that one actually has the opportunity to be that life-long learner.
Lars T.President at Strongbox Document DestructionIt could possibly get worse with the passage of The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) aka...Obamacare
Wayne C.President and CEO at Cook Systems InternationalFor every 14 positions that are open for Java Developers there is only 1 available in the USA today . Other skill shortages are almost as acute. The actual salaries has been climbing for good developers due to high demand and low supply. I see the article's wisdom however to stay sharp and current on technology and then age won't make a difference in most quarters.
Greg P.CTO/Chief Systems Architect at Phillips Technology SolutionsGreat article, refactoring yourself and staying in the flow of emerging technologies is key. The great thing is that information is so available nowadays that it's easy to keep up with where the technology relative to your domain experience is going as long as you're willing to keep the attitude that learning is fun. ;-)
Michael P.CEO at The Glenmont GroupVery well said, but I would challenge the age thing a little bit. As someone that recruits for technology positions in the Legal Tech community, I have seen just as many young talented candidates price themselves out of a job market or worse, date their skills than older candidates. Conversely, I have seen a number of "senior" candidates reinvent themselves to a more current technology skillset and find themselves competing and beating the younger candidates. So, skills and price trump! they are a clear one and two , but age is a very distant third. (At least from my perch of 3000ft)
Michael M.Designer/PresidentAgreed with what you've said. Then the question should be "is technology doing us in". Causing the fewer and younger to be employed? Affecting the bigger picture, the global economy.
Nick J.CEO at NikondiThis is an incredible misconception. Youth does not equal entrepreneurship, passion creativity, or success. The best leaders in the world seek TALENT, MOTIVATION, and HONESTY; These might happen to come from a young or older person. Period.
Frank R.President - Insurance Recruiters for "C" and "VP" level retained searchI wrote an almost identical article to this around 1994 - after the "S&L recession" which caused many white collar professionals to get locked out of the slowly improving economy. This is story is as old as the Appalachian Mountains --- Just replace "coders" for "accountants" or "legal researchers" or "underwriters" and you can apply to almost any industry.
Bal S.CEO at Green EconometricsVery honest article! But the question is cost vs Value, surly if a company has invested in an individual and he has been with the company for a while will he not add value? as you mentioned your self that you hired people over fifties and they were the most reliable poeple you had. I think one other thing that you don't mentioned is that they probably saved you time by pointing out mistakes before they were made because of their experience. I would put that in the bucket of value. Yes young people may be more flexible and easy to mold but they cannot replace the value and wisdom of the older employees. I think that companies need to learn to create a balance and a long view that leads to not a quick buck but to vision of building a company for the long haul. Sadly that is not the case in part because we have the ninety day pregnancy to the share holders that forces companies to keep a short vision point of view. This is the same reason companies flock to India China and any other place where labor is cheap rather than developing the center of excellence here. Would it not be interesting if India ,China started hiring those same cast aside employees for their experiences to lead their young people so that they could build companies. What a loss we would have to the country.
Jeff O.Jeff Ogden is President of Find New Customers and Host of Marketing Made Simple TVAs one who was named one of the Top 50 marketing experts over 50 you need to know - this rang true for me. Some of us more seasoned marketing experts have not let our skills atrophy. Case in point, I score 100 out of 100 in Hubspot Twitter Grader.
Curt F.CEO of Journyx & AuthorPart of the problem is health insurance. If you have a company population with a higher than average age, your health insurance costs much much more, leading to less rich plans and higher deductibles, which makes you less competitive and less able to hire the best. Old people get sick. And so do their spouses. And it gets really expensive really fast.
Sudharsan (Sudhan) R.Vice President at Bank of AmericaThe question is, in each of your own teams, do you hire / promote with age as a criteria? Something to think about.And constructively, what edge does age give you?
Jeff F.President and CEO at Window Film Depot, IncThis is why I tell my kids everyday that they will need to work for themselves. And they're 4 and 6.
Tommy A D.President at Quality Mortgage Services and Chief Operating Officer at QMiS SystemsYes, I agree. I tell programmers when they leave my company and go to a bigger brand names that the competition is much greater and you will be competing globally with offshore and other countries now competing as technology KPOs/BPOs. The grass is not always greener on the other side.
Joseph (Rosey) R.President & Consulting Facilitator, Process Triage LLC.To balance this article's perspective, consider Gary Klein's "Sources of Power: How People Make Decisions" (under $11 used paperback on Amazon). Klein explains how experts make decisions -- by recognizing what's missing from a problem or situation's circumstances and outperform the less experienced. It's a fascinating read. As it relates to programmers and IT professionals, there's an indifference point between the wage price the inexperienced (the cost of rework and discovery mistakes) and high quality efficiency (what seasoned professionals bring). With emerging technologies and applications, this indifference point favors the young, less experienced applicant. In the world of legacy, long-cycle technologies and applications -- which most larger, established companies live in -- there's no substitute for experience, and older, seasoned professionals are well worth the premium. So I guess it just depends.
Matt H.President at Xeraline, Inc.Oh, one thing. Sometimes software engineers don't bother gunning for management slots because they think that means they need to manage a code team. Consider managing a QA team instead. For whatever reason, this seems to feel like a more "lateral" move to a lot of engineers, but the salary increase can be significant in some companies.
Matt H.President at Xeraline, Inc.Weird. All the startups I've ever worked with always had a pretty broad mix of age ranges. Then again, I've tended to work in graphics, audio, and embedded systems, where you want people who've been around the block a few times, if you can get them. Last I checked, they STILL (*STILL*... grrrrrrr) aren't properly teaching multithreaded programming to people in college.
Steve H.President/Owner of Pride Staff an Independent Franchised BusinessI'm in the Staffing Industry and I see a real problem with this. For example, assumption that the skill sets are out of date so they are never tested because of age.
TARIQ A.C.E.O at Money ScrabbleI am not supposed to give any rank or points to this Article, but this is one of the BEST of this month. There is a bitter truth with a handsome of Advice for people growing GREY. Thank U, Mr. Vivek Wadhwa for eye-opening and showing the way forward, keeping comfort level intact.
Garry L.CEO, TriSys Business SoftwareTriSys has a few 'senior engineers' and we always prefer experienced software specialists so age is absolutely no barrier at TriSys. In my experience though, this is unusual, and the norm has as much to do with cost i.e. you can hire many more junior developers than senior ones, and inexperienced project managers are intimidated by hiring people who are older. Of course this is false economy, because senior developers will get the job done faster, better and with greater long term maintainability - something the younger guys generally do not care about due to lack of experience.
Neville G.CTO/Program DirectorI have found that experience and grey hair is a double-edged sword – Ever sat in an interview where the CIO is twenty years younger than you, and as he reads your resume his eyebrows start to raise as he realizes that you helped create some of the technologies and methodologies that he holds dear, and that you are still on the bleeding edge of today’s technology? Chances of being hired – not good. Suddenly you’ve become opposition. So, should someone - with skills on excess of those required by the job – lie on their resume? It’s not always about age – I have always tried to hire people brighter or with greater experience than myself, but this is obviously not the norm. In today’s economy it is somewhat understandable – people are hired and fired in rapid succession to attain that mythical cost-effective or revenue producing state of perfection. Why put your own job at risk by hiring your own potential replacement? Sad state of affairs …
Philip N.CFO (experienced in business development, fundraising, M&A, JVs & disposals)Agree … but all people are different – a lot of “older” workers do not conform to the stereotype of being slow learn/keep up to date, staid, leave the office at 6:00 p.m. and so on. Many take the time to keep up-to-date, question, enjoy working all hours and so on. However, skills, approach, and experiences do change as one gets older. A wise team leader will have an open mind (and experience) and take the time to understand differing experience, skills and personalities and build a balanced team – including experience. The article is useful in highlighting the need to understand the phases of careers at an early stage and plan for the long term.
Abhijit G.Co Founder & CEO, QEDbatonI couldnt agree more with this piece. We have been seeing this for quite some time in the Indian IT industry. The good part is- that I think it has led a substantial wave of Product start ups with Mid-Senior level Techies getting together and pursuing their ideas. After years in the industry they are financially stable to take the risk. The bad part is that you regularly come across a lot of frustrated middle aged professionals, and the number is rapidly increasing with the reduced pace of growth in the industry and increasing pressure from the lower ranks to move up the ladder.
Mark T.CFO & Management Consultant"The young understand new technologies better than the old do..." Oh really? The next time I need to explain to an 18 year old what Skype, What's App or Viber are and why they're better for their pocket I'll remember this!
Amber R.CEO - TamarindCompletely agree. The new generation is more energetic, flexible, comes with less baggage, is willing to take the extra mile & is risk charged. They are willing to redefine boundaries. I am not saying the grey ones dont but the energy levels and the drive to achieve newer dimensions is a big variant. As the greyness increases the natural instinct is towards family and other commitments. This is where the fresh blood scores according to me.
Wei W.CEO at MicRiverMore than shocks to read this. Experiences to engineers, some times means higher efficiency or better quality, but some times means unwilling to be persuaded, or led to a new thinking area
Steven S.President, Founder, LifeGate, IncI'm not really sure this is a dark secret. You provide great advice; for those getting up in years, it's important to keep up w/the new platforms, coding, languages, and the whole dev ecosystem, but great athletes who are past their prime can still mentor and work with the phenoms and help them enhance multiple skills.
RadhaKrishna M.COO at Independent HR ConsultantSo true,I would prefer to recruit these Seniors as they are more mature and stable
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