转一个blind上的大佬对狗和亚麻的看法

在亚麻和狗都是7，先在亚麻待的，后去的狗

转帖可以做个参考，请勿踩

.--Google: 4 years, $800K TC, Strongly Exceeds Expectations
. From 1point 3acres bbsAmazon: 5 years, $650K TC, close to TTTotal YoE: 20

I've had great experiences at both Google and Amazon. They are about as different companies as you can get though. You can ask me anything.

Amazon is very efficient, hard-working, demanding, survival of the fittest, but if you survive then you learn a lot from the experience. It is like you put in many hours but you get a lot of learning from it. And the scale and impact is tremendous. Amazon's "customer obsession" is very powerful, you do anything for the customer. The flip side is at Amazon you will work very hard, and be treated as a cog in the wheel, and treating each other well is not a core value. Because of moving fast, the deadlines are often unreasonable, the tech debt is great, you always feel that everything is life or death, or maybe it is for your career if you don't deliver. PIP and URA are terrible, because every year you see good people fired and then you have to spend resources to hire them, and sometimes those good people have a lot of institutional knowledge, and there is the constant fear that even if you have been doing well, if you slip up then you may be let go. There's a misnomer that if you're a good performer or have a kind manager then you don't have to worry about this, but the truth is worse.

Google values the employee and making big bets. It feels like a big party sometimes, its very fun a lot. There's very little pressure. We have time and mental energy to think about big things. The work life balance is great, the food is great, the gyms are great, the perks are great. I feel like my leaders all care about me as a person. The flip side is it's easy to rest and vest here, so if you do feel passionate about getting things done then you have to be on a good team where teammates are sharing commitment. And because its bottom up, its sometimes difficult to come to agreement on things. Also some engineers get used to the perks, I think "spoiled child" is the right term? Some of the questions during our all hands are really embarrassing. Like Sundar gives us free days off, and people are demanding more.


One example of the contrast between Google and Amazon is Blind. Amazon Blind is all people who are on PIP or complaining about how much they've sacrificed. Google is someone complaining they're going to quit because bathroom doesn't have a proper holder for their laptop, or if our new performance system is going to turn us into Amazon, or "I want to go to another company and be paid more but still only work 20 hours a week, where can I go".

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补充几个觉得精彩的问答
Q: which traits/characteristics make a good EM?
     Is there any pointers/courses should a SDE learn to move into EM track?

A: I will answer this for Amazon because you're at Amazon. This is different for at Google. At Amazon, a good EM needs to be on top of everything and able to deliver results. How you do this, doesn't matter as much. The ends justify the means, to a large extent. You can do this by overworking yourself. Overworking your SDE's. Playing a good politics game and committing to less. But your Deliver Results is by far the most important thing. Even much more important than your retention and how you treat your SDE's, as long as you don't lose your top tiers. You do have to be good with politics. Know what to say that won't put your foot in your mouth. Think about every meeting with your leadership like you are going to a trial and being cross examinationed. Even good EM's can bury their grave if they don't know how to say things right, and make themselves look bad.

    For SDE to EM, how I handled this was give SDE a few reports dotted line, and see how they do. And then if they do well then give them official reports and move them over. Just realize that moving from SDE to SDM is pretty easy in the same role because you already know the tech. Your first job as SDM in a different company is hardest.

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Q: What goes through your mind when people say they’re leaving Google (perhaps even return) to Amazon?

-baidu 1point3acres
A: There is a low likelihood that people can go from Google to Amazon and survive. The pace and culture are just so much more unforgiving at Amazon. When I was at Amazon, we had a few ex-Google, and none of them did well. Were too head in the clouds, withered under criticism, couldn't get stuff done fast enough. Sometimes I think people at Google should all try to go to somewhere like Amazon because it will teach them how the rest of the real world works. Good luck complaining at Amazon about why you can't have 4 day work weeks and more comp.

    If they want to return to Amazon, my attitude is very different. They know what they're getting into. Sometimes I do miss the fast pace at Amazon. Like if I were at Amazon then we would have figured this out much faster. But, I don't think I would go back myself. But I don't disrepect anyone who would.

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Q: How did you get from l6 to L7?

A: I got promoted at Amazon from L6 to L7. I had been doing well for the first couple of years and came in with a really high rating into L6, so they gave me a very tough project with VP visibility. It was sink or swim. I've seen other SDM's at Amazon who didn't do well with an "opportunity" even though they worked really hard, and then left or even got a bad review.

补充内容 (2022-10-02 03:19 +8:00):
今天做了些补充，不过不能修改原帖了，所以放到第二页的回帖里去了，不知道站方有没有办法把回帖的QA和原帖合并起来

对打工人来说
很明显
希望狗家这种以员工为本的公司越多越好
我愿意牺牲一月一次的网购体验换取一天八小时工作上的舒适度
我愿意活在没有AWS/云计算的世界，晚几年体验数据化带来的“便利性“
不过论坛上很多大佬资本家
可能观点不一样

谷歌和亚麻商业底层上不是一个行业。谷歌还处在人无我有，人有我优的阶段。竞争少，定价权大，所以需要少数足够优秀的大神推动整个公司和行业的发展。一个人产生的效益抵得上数十甚至上百个平庸工程师。而亚麻很多部门是实打实的传统行业，竞争激烈，科技用来支撑运营，背后难度不大却极花时间的事儿非常多。所以很厉害的人在这产生的效益有限。亚麻top down，work backward的商业逻辑是行业特性产生的结果（人优我廉）。控制成本扩大个人，产出而不是扶植大神。
你看谷歌gcp忙不忙？

在一个亚麻统治世界和狗统治世界的选择里 我选狗

谢转 zszszs

作为一个公司 亚麻的模式更有价值 因为更大更强只能是推出好的产品 新的产品。只要还能找到人 pip几个人不是大问题

forp 发表于 2022-9-30 21:47
作为一个公司 亚麻的模式更有价值 因为更大更强只能是推出好的产品 新的产品。只要还能找到人 pip几个人不 ...

嗯，对投资者来说可能亚麻的模式见效更快，特别是对已经成规模的公司
不过狗的模式也许更有助于创新，只不过现在狗的规模太大了，可能已经没有当初小公司时的初心了

匿名用户 发表于 2022-9-30 21:04
嗯，对投资者来说可能亚麻的模式见效更快，特别是对已经成规模的公司
不过狗的模式也许更有助于创新，只 ...

大公司这些创新意义不大，因为没法scale up，没法市场化。

匿名用户 发表于 2022-09-30 19:04:36
嗯，对投资者来说可能亚麻的模式见效更快，特别是对已经成规模的公司
不过狗的模式也许更有助于创新，只不过现在狗的规模太大了，可能已经没有当初小公司时的初心了

狗的模式有助于工程师“feel”他们care about创新，但是从产品角度就是一堆浪费时间的disasters，这就是bottom up的缺点

当亚麻股东/顾客，别当亚麻员工

亚麻的成功会压缩我们所有人的生存空间