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[OPT] 如何轻松愉快的去为OPT extension灌一瓢水 (附带条款解读)

    [复制链接] |试试Instant~
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本帖最后由 wsmjmiisme 于 2015-11-18 15:28 编辑 . check 1point3acres for more.

OPT extension到24个月这个利国利民的大好事最近出现了一些不一样的声音,比如MITBBS上就有人发现官网上最近出现了水军按点上班黑OPT extension,导致每天80%的评论都是negative的苗头 http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/JobHunting/33085427.html

看着这个不禁想起来刚发布的时候就有人提醒:

小伙伴们不要掉以轻心昂,公示结束后会有人评估,不是说new rule就一定通过的。所以像L123说的,大家一定要至少准备一条有意义的评论!


不过相信很多小伙伴跟我一样,有着非常严重的”英文阅读障碍症“,所以面对这种情况最好的做法就是:装作忘了(╮(╯▽╰)╭)


不过。。。内心一直有一个声音在提醒着我:这个时候你可不能装死啊啊啊!!!


于是lz又挣扎着爬起来,关掉琅琊榜,耐着性子把OPT extension的rule放到kindle里面认真地看了。。。2天! 发现。。。这事儿。。。挺容易对付的啊!因为DHS已经挖好了坑,等着大家去灌呢!!


不想看英文的同学看我这篇帖子就好啦,看到哪个坑顺眼就灌哪个坑,您随意,尽兴就好O(∩_∩)O


更新: 有个可爱的码农同学做了一个提交comment的神器,可以避免cookies审查,小伙伴们直接在这里提交吧,它会返回tracking number -- 这个失效了,还是用原来的链接灌吧:http://www.regulations.gov/#!documentDetail;D=ICEB-2015-0002-0011





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上一篇:看了DHS的proposed STEM OPT rule的评论,感觉这是要一剪梅的前奏啊。
下一篇:请教各位summer intern
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fishgo 2015-11-11 14:19:20 | 显示全部楼层
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第四波
Comment Tracking Number: 1jz-8m6u-s04e
版主不必加米了,之前已经加过了~
大家加油啊!

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wsmjmiisme + 130 赞,再接再厉,每天一篇,第一次加100,第.

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赞lz,下面是我根据lz的帖子,提供的comment。希望大家也尽量提供自己写的comment,给别人参考,如果comment里能结合自己或者身边的例子,那更好了。

首先,我拿自己来说,当年出国的时候选择来美国而不是去别的国家的原因就是美国能提供更好的training机会给foreign STEM talents,另外大部分美国的高科技领域都需要foreign STEM students的支撑,如果这个OPT extension突然没了,对很多公司都是个disaster。
I strongly support this new OPT extension rule. I'm an international computer science master student from China and was a software engineer intern at XXX. Before I came to US, I had multiple options to purse my master degree in US, Canada, Singapore, Hong Kong and British. The most important reason I choose to study here is US could provide me the industry training opportunity during school or after graduation. So OPT extension is very important to attract foreign STEM talents. Without this OPT extension rule, I can't believe US could still attract so many foreign STEM talents every year to contribute their knowledge to this country and I probably would choose to study in other countries with better policy to foreign STEM talents. BTW, if this rule is terminated by some reasons, it's definitely a huge disaster to most US high-tech companies, like Google, Apple, Intel, Facebook, etc. Because they are supported by foreign STEM talents.

第二个就是说12+24个月时间还是挺好的,拿自己以前在公司里的例子来说,很多研究项目都要持续两年以上,如果时间太短了,员工没了VISA,项目就没法做下去了。
I think that 12 months regular + 24 months extension time is also a good length for OPT program. Based on my previous work experience at XXX, most large research/software development projects would last at least 2 years or more. If the OPT extension time is too short, foreign STEM workers worked on those project would lose their VISA before the projects completion.

最后就是我最后还是想回中国的,如果能在美国干个几年,回国才会有竞争力。
As I'm a Chinese STEM student and was born and living there, I would return back China eventually. Before then, I'd like to apply my knowledge learned from US university to US high-tech industry development. If I have about 3 years work experience in US, I would be competitive in the job market of China. That's why this new OPT rule would benefit both US high-tech industry and international STEM talents.

Hope more people support this good rule!

===
另外我打算让我房东也写一个comment,跟我一块住的几个同学基本都是STEM专业的,OPT extension成了,更多STEM专业学生来念书,还能让当地居民增加房租收入,何乐而不为~

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有tracking number吗?po出来我给你加米  发表于 2015-11-12 08:26

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Echo_Crown + 3 房东这想法真好 :)
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 楼主| wsmjmiisme 2015-11-5 15:48:58 | 显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 wsmjmiisme 于 2015-11-5 16:21 编辑

再看下去,发现DHS关于这个OPT的提案是煞费苦心有备而来,现在的一些negative的评论,比如OPT学生pay 低啊,抢了美国人饭碗这些事情,在上一版08年的提案中就有人提出来了,DHS在这一版的提案中就这些都有理有据的一一回应了,所以我觉得在辩论吵架这件事情上,大家就不要去跟DHS抢风头啦,那些negative的评论,DHS自有文采比我们好 逻辑比我们清楚的人 来替我们打脸,我们要做的,就是找到DHS挖的坑,好好评论,给点个人案例作为论据就行啦~

A number of commenters, however, objected to the 17-month STEM OPT extension on the basis of potential negative impacts on U.S. workers in STEM fields. For instance, a commenter stated that demand for technical workers was very weak in engineering occupations and growing modestly in computing and mathematics occupations. The same commenter stated that, especially when combined with H-1B, L-1, and other skilled workers, the number of students taking advantage of the STEM OPT extension would distort the domestic labor market. Some commenters specifically stated that employers would prefer to hire F-1 students on STEM OPT extensions because these students would work for lower wages. Some commenters noted that some U.S. firms had previously advertised STEM positions as being available only to OPT students. Commenters requested that DHS consider written reports, testimony, and other sources describing the state of the U.S. STEM workforce. Commenters also questioned the veracity of studies and reports cited in the preamble to the 2008 IFR, and some questioned whether DHS had interpreted that information correctly in assessing the then-prevailing STEM labor market. Some commenters stated that the STEM OPT extension was contrary to the academic purpose of the F-1 statute. In general, commenters who made these and similar points requested that DHS eliminate the STEM OPT extension and the Cap Gap provision in their entirety.
DHS's initial assessment, consistent with many of the public comments and following consultation with the U.S. Departments of Education and Labor, is that the direct benefit to the academic experience resulting from the STEM OPT extension is significant, and that on the whole, positive indirect effects on educational institutions and academic exchange support the availability of a STEM OPT extension at this time. Nevertheless, DHS recognizes the concerns expressed above and proposes to modify the terms and conditions for employer participation in the STEM OPT extension in order to protect U.S. workers from possible employer abuses of these programs.
For instance, any employer wishing to hire a student participating in the STEM OPT extension would, as part of a newly required Mentoring and Training Plan, be required to sign a sworn attestation affirming that, among other things: (1) The employer has sufficient resources and personnel available and is prepared to provide appropriate mentoring and training in connection with the specified opportunity; (2) the employer will not terminate, lay off, or furlough a U.S. worker as a result of providing the STEM OPT to the student; and (3) the student's opportunity assists the student in attaining his or her training objectives. As with all affirmations contained in the Mentoring and Training Plan, the employer would attest that these commitments are true and correct to the best of the employer's knowledge, information and belief.
Additionally, the proposed rule would require that the terms and conditions of an employer's STEM practical training opportunity—including duties, hours and compensation [56] —be commensurate with those provided to the employer's similarly situated U.S. workers. Work duties must be designed to assist the student with continued learning and satisfy the existing ICE guidelines for work hours when participating in post-completion OPT, which are set at a minimum of 20 hours per week, and would be so defined under this proposed rule. [57] If the employer does not employ and has not recently employed more than two similarly situated U.S. workers, the employer would be required to ensure that the terms and conditions of a STEM practical training opportunity are commensurate with those for similarly situated U.S. workers in other employers of analogous size and industry and in the same geographic area of employment. “Similarly situated U.S. workers” would include U.S. workers performing similar duties and with similar educational backgrounds, employment experience, levels of responsibility, and skill sets as the STEM OPT student. The student's compensation would be reported on the Mentoring and Training Plan and the student would be responsible for reporting any adjustments. DHS requests public comment, especially from employers and labor organizations, on all aspects of this provision, including the types of business factors employers would use to evaluate whether their workers are similarly situated.
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 楼主| wsmjmiisme 2015-11-5 15:48:39 | 显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 wsmjmiisme 于 2015-11-5 17:02 编辑
. check 1point3acres for more.
开篇之前先说明一件事情:
OPT延期虽然对我们国际生来说是有很大的好处,但是美国的教育机构(academic sectors)才是最大的受益者。美国希望能够吸引到最优秀的学生来美国学习,所以才提出了一个OPT来帮助国际学生学得更好,学而实习之嘛,不亦乐乎。没错,我们是被拉拢被服务的对象,不要搞错了!按照DHS的说法,OPT是为了让美国的学术机构保持国际竞争力来吸引国际生的一个福利。 (英文都是官网原文)

As referenced above, DHS is taking this action to include a STEM OPT extension as part of the OPT program under the F-1 nonimmigrant classification in order to better ensure, among other important national interests, that the U.S. academic sector can remain competitive globally.

...

Enabling continued extended OPT for qualifying students with experience in STEM fields is consistent with DHS's “Study in the States” initiative, announced after the 2008 IFR in September 2011 to encourage international students to study in the United States. That initiative particularly focused on enhancing our nation's economic, scientific and technological competitiveness by finding new ways to encourage talented international students to become involved in expanded post-graduate opportunities in the United States. The initiative has taken various steps to enhance and improve the Nation's nonimmigrant student programs. [

这个立场之下,咱们作为被拉拢对象,是有话要说的!

1. 为什么来美国留学不去英国留学,就是因为美国毕业了可以有OPT工作嘛,OPT只有1年,吸引力大大下降了
DHS自己都说了,其他国家都在出台类似的手段吸引优秀的国际学生啊,你的政策不好,我们留学生自然还有别的选择,所以【此处应有评论】: 我当时选择美国留学是因为美国的教育与时俱进,而且结合了OPT项目可以让我们可以积攒到实际的industry的experience,没有OPT的美国教育就不一定那么吸引人咯。

Countries such as Canada, the United Kingdom, New Zealand, Australia, Malaysia, Taiwan, and China are actively instituting new strategies to attract international students. [34]

For example, Canada also recognizes that educational institutions need international students to compete in the “global race for research talent.” [35] In April, 2008, Canada modified its Post-Graduation Work Permit Program to allow international students who have graduated from a recognized Canadian post-secondary institution to stay and gain valuable post-graduate work experience for a period equal to the length of the student's study program, up to a maximum of three years, with no restrictions on type of employment. [36] This change resulted in a 64% increase in the number of post-graduation work permits issued to international students in 2008. [37] By 2014, the number of internationalstudents in the program more than doubled its 2008 total. [38] In addition, Canada aims to double the number of international students in the country to 450,000 by 2022. [39]

2. 申请学校的时候听说是有17个月,有的人已经在17个月的extension中了,现在取消了,你让我怎么办(惨惨惨,你不守信用!)

DHS also recognizes that it must quickly address the imminent vacatur of the 2008 IFR, and the significant uncertainty surrounding the status of thousands of students in the United States. As of September 16, 2015, over 34,000 students were in the United States on a STEM OPT extension. In addition, hundreds of thousands of international students, most of whom are in F-1 status, have already chosen to enroll in U.S. educational institutions and are currently pursuing courses of study in fields that may provide eligibility for this program. Some of those students may have considered the opportunities offered by the STEM OPT extension when deciding whether to pursue their degree in the United States. DHS must therefore act swiftly to mitigate the uncertainty surrounding the 2008 IFR. Prompt action is particularly appropriate with respect to those students who have already committed to study in the United States, in part based on the possibility of furthering their education through an extended period of practical training in the world's leading STEM economy.[12]
【此处应有评论】: 来来,给你举个栗子

3. 工作三年的经验回国才值钱嘛,一年工作回去了身价不涨啊(实情嘛,说的文雅点哈)
【此处应有评论】: 来来,给你举个栗子

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 楼主| wsmjmiisme 2015-11-5 15:50:03 | 显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 wsmjmiisme 于 2015-11-5 18:02 编辑

DHS的坑挖得其实特别明显,只要搜索 DHS welcomes/requires comments 之类的关键字,看看上下文就知道它需要神马样的水,我会在后面的跟帖里面一一指出DHS挖的到底是哪些坑,大家看着灌就好^_^

另外这个new rule其实有很多细则跟我们是息息相关的,比如有关非STEM专业是不是也可以extension,另外今年还有一个mentor and  training plan, 可能会有一些隐形的福利哦,lz看的时候忍不住也摘出来评论了一番,利益相关的小伙伴可以拿着lz的英文原文到官网上搜搜上下文,更多的了解一下
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 楼主| wsmjmiisme 2015-11-5 15:50:21 | 显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 wsmjmiisme 于 2015-11-5 16:37 编辑

1. 关于为什么是24个月
DHS自己就解释了啊: 很多国家自然基金支持的项目都是3-4年才能完成的,一年的根本不够啊。。。此处当然应有评论了啊!

The duration of an extension would be set at 24 months, rather than limited to a shorter period, due to the complexity and typical durations of research, development, testing, and other projects commonly undertaken in STEM fields. Affording greater participation in STEM training through changes to the period of the STEM OPT extension would also help the nation and its academic institutions remain competitive in light of global efforts offering international students longer post-study training experience without restrictions on the type of work that may be performed. [45]

DHS considered many factors in determining the proposed length for an improved STEM OPT extension period. An important consideration was the general duration of projects to be pursued by students on STEM OPT extensions. DHS believes that students participating in practical training in STEM fields should be encouraged to pursue meaningful projects that contribute to a deeper understanding of their field of study and help develop the practical skills necessary to advance their careers. This type of significant project—often involving a grant or fellowship application, management of grant money, focused research, and publication of a report—typically requires several years to complete. Stakeholders have indicated, moreover, that this process often takes longer in the STEM community than in other academic or business areas. For example, the National Science Foundation (NSF) typically funds projects through grants that last for up to three years. [46] And in many fields such as mathematics, computer science, and the social sciences, NSF is the major source of federal funding. [47] 【大家不妨举例说说自己是什么领域的,都involve到什么项目中了,这个项目需要多久的时间,所以24个月的opt是必不可少的】

Fostering integration of research and education through the types of programs, projects, and activities described above will help recruit, train, and prepare a diverse STEM workforce to advance the frontiers of science and participate in the U.S. technology-based economy. [48]Combined with the initial 12-month OPT period, a maximum 24-month STEM OPT extension would provide students a sufficient opportunity to participate through the life of such a grant. [49]Accordingly, and following consultation with the Department of Education and the National Science Foundation (NSF), DHS believes that an appropriate benchmark for the maximum duration of OPT for STEM students is the standard duration of an NSF grant—approximately three years.

DHS anticipates that the 24-month extension would significantly enhance the academic benefit of a STEM student's OPT experience. As noted above, many research projects take years to complete, and under the new STEM OPT extension, a student would have increased opportunities to learn how to apply for a grant or fellowship, become a responsible steward of grant money, initiate a study or project, see the study or project through to conclusion, write a report and obtain peer review, and have the report published. DHS requests public comment and the submission of empirical data in relation to this proposition. In addition, DHS requests public comment regarding the length of research, development, testing and other projects for which STEM graduates (regardless of nationality) from U.S. universities are typically assigned in the workplace.

DHS挖坑挖得多明显, 简直就是直接呼喊:【此处应有评论】!!

大家说说说自己或者身边的例子,项目做到一半身份没了的不方便啊不方便。。。
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 楼主| wsmjmiisme 2015-11-5 16:03:07 | 显示全部楼层
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另外大家如果实在想锻炼一下argument的能力,可以去看看有什么negative的评论,捉过来大家一起GRE Argument一下,当然最后打脸还需要您亲自动手啦^_^
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赞赞赞楼主!
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 楼主| wsmjmiisme 2015-11-5 16:49:44 | 显示全部楼层
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本帖最后由 wsmjmiisme 于 2015-11-5 17:06 编辑

2. 这个点很好support啊,比如Uber如果想在中国打开市场,就需要来自中国,了解中国市场的学生,现在FB,Google都在积极入华,大家可以举个栗子来说明一下

U.S. employers will benefit from the increased ability to rely on the skills acquired by STEM OPT students while studying in the United States, as well as their knowledge of markets in their home countries.
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本帖最后由 wsmjmiisme 于 2015-11-5 17:19 编辑

3. 显然 "overwhelmingly positive"的support对于DHS是很有帮助的,所以 不管 说多说少 都去灌一瓢吧~~

Public comments received on the 2008 IFR were overwhelmingly positive. Although, as described in more detail below, many commenters recommended specific changes to the STEM OPT extension and some commenters objected to the 2008 IFR altogether, the vast majority of commenters—including students, educational institutions, advocacy groups, and STEM employers—expressed strong support for the rule's main provisions. DHS continues to believe that practical training is frequently a key element of F-1 students' educational experience, and that STEM students in particular may benefit from an extended period of time in practical training.
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