SUNY Stony Brook Quantitative Finance

相比于其他专业，金工金数不仅竞争激烈，项目数量上明显也少很多，选择的余地有限，本人深知背景不强，所以在保底学校的选择上多花了点功夫，近日和石溪一名本科毕业生沟通，了解到他家Quantitative Finance项目的一些情况，虽然最后我还是决定不申他家了。但在地里分享给大家，感兴趣的朋友可以参考下。（中间也顺带了解了下他家统计项目的情况）

我：I want to apply for the SUNY Stony Brook Quantitative Finance program. Can you please update some new information about the faculty, courses, internship and employment rate ?
他：I did not graduate from the Graduate program, but I studied there as an undergrad and got to know the students and the program quite well. I took a few of the masters level courses as well. The program is good because it has a few really smart hedge fund people working there. Take a look at the profiles of the professors. Everyone knows James (Jim) Simons, and they also have other really great practitioners, and are hiring more, so the program is developing.

However, most of the good news ends there. I studied with the masters students there, and they sadly, don't get jobs. Half of the PhD students have a good internship, and there are an abnormally large amount of PhDs for a program of its size. (About 12 last time I checked). Career services is no help, and Stony Brook isn't really a target school, so you will have to go find your own internship, or start your own hedge fund/prop firm (which is almost a culture at Stony Brook QF). That being said, Stony Brook's program is quite different from the programs of others. The courses it offers are not that demanding, but there are a few interesting ones such as "Important Papers in Quantitative Finance", and "Case Studies in Quantitative Finance" what you won't really see elsewhere.

The courses themselves are foolishly easy. However, this will be to your detriment when seeking jobs and going on quant interviews as the program lacks rigor when compared with the top quant programs, and the culture there isn't extremely motivated. You can see many of the alumni have tried to work for startups, or went in completely different directions (other than quant finance). You will however, be getting a bargain as Stony Brook tuition is extremely cheap.

The program is not selective at all. I know a stock broker who had no math background at all that got in. 99% of the masters students are Chinese, and don't speak English well enough to pass an interview. I spoke with the director of the program about this one day in his office, and he said "Honestly, I feel sorry for them. They won't really get anywhere."

That being said, the top 3 or 4 PhD students are doing really really well. If you can become one of those people, then you have a chance to do something with your life. I also know one Masters student who is currently interning at CME in New York. That's it. After graduating from undergrad, I felt like I really needed to get out, so I went to a different quant program, and my oh my, there are leagues and leagues of difference between the program I am in now, and what Stony Brook offered me.



我：Useful information! It seems that I should reconsider whether applying for the QF program in SUNY. BTW, do you know something about the Master's program in Statistics in SUNY? Maybe that's a backup plan for me.
他：As with all MS Stats programs out there, you are really only getting a quantitative liberal arts education. Make sure that when you enter these program, you begin looking for a job from day one. I know many MS Stat students that still did not know what they wanted to do after the graduated, and ended up with no job. Since Stats is extremely broad, you have to specialize, and market yourself in that way to employers. Not all students are capable of this, and many just go into masters programs because all they know how to do is be a student.

So my advice is to make sure you are thinking about what kind of statistician you want to be, who employs those kinds of statisticians, what kinds of pay they get (and if you are comfortable with that), where these employers are, and how your MS degree will help you market yourself to those employers.

As for Stony Brook specifically, it is not the best program out there, but it has decent faculty. Like the QF program, 99% of these students are from China, and don't speak good enough English to pass an interview. Stony Brook is well-known in China because it is the flagship SUNY school, and Stony Brook sends many delegations to China (when I was an undergraduate there, I worked in the Chinese office that organized these missions). But the truth is, the closer are to the school, the worse the reputation is. ie. If you grew up in California, and Stony Brook is somewhat of a mystery to you, it will appear better than it is. All in all however, it is a good backup for students that are proactive, and really want to learn. (In terms of getting a job, and advancing your career, you had better do that yourself. Stony Brook is not going to help you at all. I also used to work in the Career Center.)



我：Thanks a lot for your kind and detailed reply. I reread your words about QF program and stop by the sentence where you said the director of the program felt sorry for masters there. But as the director, why not do something to improve the career service and help those Chinese students to find jobs ? Does he have a plan to make the program better in future?
他：Zari Rachev is an academic more interested in his own research and his day job to care about improving the program itself. Robert Frey has been largely unable to teach until this year due to his morbid obesity (like seriously, no joke). They are both amazing people on their own, but very bad teachers in my opinion. You're not going to work for Renaissance by getting accepted into the program.

Rachev explicitly said to me that the Chinese students are in trouble because they are unable to communicate effectively in English. The Career Center can't really do much about that, since it can't convince employers that they want Stony Brook's QF students. This is also because Stony Brook is extremely unselective, doesn't do interviews, and will take any person off the street that applies regardless of their English ability, or even their mathematical ability. The top quant programs by contrast care very much about both, and quants from China in Columbia (the program that I think has one of the largest Chinese student populations) can speak rapid, idiomatic English.

Your English, while not perfect, is probably much better than the average Stony Brook QF student's, so I don't think there will be much of a problem there, but just remember that your success will come from yourself--not the school. You will have to make your own connections to New York, and find your own job. Stony Brook was virtually no help to me, mostly because it is a school that most quant employers don't take seriously--and I don't blame them. Just take a look at Linked In, and you'll see that Masters from Stony Brook QF don't really get those jobs that you are thinking about in bulge bracket banks.

So, tell me. Why are you thinking of applying to Stony Brook QF in the first place?



我：Well, you are really informed. Actually I applied for other quant programs like MFE in Baruch, NUY- Poly, etc. But I do consider for QF in SUNY just for safety's sake. Moreover, quite limited information about it is available so I'm not sure the faculties, reputation and placement match what they claim in the official website. To be honest, I heard before that students there can get easier access to working for Renaissance. So even if I get admitted, I may choose other programs as you said "Stony Brook is extremely unselective, doesn't do interviews, and will take any person off the street that applies regardless of their English ability, or even their mathematical ability".
他：MFE Baruch is very good, and is actively trying to build its reputation amongst the ivy leagues (which by comparison have become somewhat complacent). I don't really like NYU-Poly that much. It is a lesser version of NYU Courant, which has several hundred students compared to Courants's around 30. Many people get this mixed up, and Poly mostly just generates cash for NYU while many people mistakenly think that both NYU's have the same reputation. (They don't) Can't you apply for the ivy leagues? And no, going to Stony Brook does not help you get into Renaissance. Being a genius helps you get into Renaissance, and if you are a genius, go to Columbia or Princeton instead.

看了这一篇我真的只想哭！！！能让我上热门评论吗！！！他对qf的评价也太片面了！！拿TOP5 的水准和石溪比较，这样多不公平啊！！！去石溪的同学本来就是有自己的想法和目标，知道自己可能努力也去不了那些厉害的牛校！厉害的人当然可以追寻更高更好的教育水准！那写这篇可怕的文章的人，有没有想过，拿石溪和同等水平的学校比较呢！！

清风糊涂仙 发表于 2013-12-13 22:01
感谢lz的资料！看了对QF的评价，心里有种深深的悲哀啊……外国人就是这么坑咱们同胞的钱的……

也不能叫坑吧，石溪的学费已经是下限了，只能说很多去那的中国学生自身竞争力有限，系里帮不了太多的忙，当然项目本身有很多地方需要改进。How much one benefits from a particular MFE program depends on how much work one is willing to put in and whether that MFE program fits the interests/aims of a student.

感谢lz的资料！看了对QF的评价，心里有种深深的悲哀啊……外国人就是这么坑咱们同胞的钱的……

楼主的帖子好赞，最好那一句Being a genius helps you get into Renaissance，是真的啊

QF2013Fall新生看了略觉悲哀，呵呵，有些不得不承认是真的。

reanghect 发表于 2013-12-17 07:03
QF2013Fall新生看了略觉悲哀，呵呵，有些不得不承认是真的。

为什么不是叫QF track？ 而是QF program，我是申请Stat，是入校以后选择track么, 总的来说这算一个MS in stat的项目么？

nsnxy 发表于 2013-12-17 00:24
楼主的帖子好赞，最好那一句Being a genius helps you get into Renaissance，是真的啊

是啊，以前一直以为石溪的学生进Renaissance应该有天然优势，看来事实并非如此

reanghect 发表于 2013-12-17 07:03
QF2013Fall新生看了略觉悲哀，呵呵，有些不得不承认是真的。

欢迎分享更多信息嘿嘿

smile舒米勒 发表于 2013-12-17 09:59
为什么不是叫QF track？ 而是QF program，我是申请Stat，是入校以后选择track么, 总的来说这算一个MS in  ...

是叫QF track，Stat也是另外一个track。入校后会根据你申请的意愿默认分到你本来想去的track，但是自己改变主意想调整也可以。总的来说，五个track统称AMS Department的Master项目

为什么这些话看着很眼熟。。。quantnet那个论坛里面经常看见有人这么说stony brook。。。。。。