OPT NEW STEM 10/19正式进入公示!!!!!!!，准备好评论吧小伙伴们

我怎么觉得那位兄弟有很多语法错误呢，而且又能看懂汉字，要知道我认识的这么多ABC里能说溜汉语的都几乎没有，别说看懂汉字了。。。不得不怀疑您也是一位新移民啊。。。如果是这样的话心态好微妙啊。可能需要进行一些心理咨询了。
还有，我在硅谷工作，你说我们低pay？简直笑话了，new grad工资甩平均美国人几条街。senior供不应求，公司出高工资都挖不到人。公司招一个international无论花费还是风险，都比招native高的多，你以为公司傻啊，他们为什么要招international啊，还不是因为招不到合格的美国人？？？你们这么厉害那你们来硅谷找工作啊，高薪工作遍地是啊。
硅谷现在一大半是国际人才在撑着，世界顶级人才的汇聚才造就了硅谷的今天，我倒想看看把h1b，opt都废了以后硅谷会变成什么样，希望你能自豪的告诉我说硅谷还是一样屌。希望那些竞争不过国际学生的美国人一样能干好硅谷的工作。
美国现在这个移民政策真的让我想起清朝的闭关锁国，很难想象一个世界一流大国，拥有最发达技术的国家居然给外来技术人才设置这么大的障碍，要抽签才能留下来，哈哈哈哈笑话。改天大家真的都回自己国家了，硅谷没落了，缴税大户倒闭了，经济增长放缓了，希望你们这些要赶走移民的人还能高兴的起来。

micheljyc 发表于 2015-10-29 13:27
我怎么觉得那位兄弟有很多语法错误呢，而且又能看懂汉字，要知道我认识的这么多ABC里能说溜汉语的都几乎没 ...

@jeff_xu001 I am not Chinese American but I studied Chinese as my secondary major.

@micheljyc, I do not understand every detail of what you posted, but I think your main idea is that if OPT and h1b visa are abolished, there will be no job and economic growth for America?

I think I have already addressed this argument, this is the talking point of lobbying groups from Wall Street and Silicon Valley which claimed that those guest worker programs create job and economic growth.

You can look at different sets of data and may draw different conclusions about that claim. However, it is certain that ordinary American do not feel the "growth" even if there is indeed a growth. I guess only those CEOs of google, Microsoft and
Apple are enjoying the "growth".

If this growth is not felt by ordinary American people, then it should be understandable for American public to oppose those guest programs.

"还有，我在硅谷工作，你说我们低pay？简直笑话了，new grad工资甩平均美国人几条街。senior供不应求，公司出高工资都挖不到人。公司招一个international无论花费还是风险，都比招native高的多，你以为公司傻啊，他们为什么要招international啊，还不是因为招不到合格的美国人？？？你们这么厉害那你们来硅谷找工作啊，高薪工作遍地是啊""

I guess you are saying silicon valley foreign workers are paying at high salaries and companies do not find qualified American workers?
you argument may be correct for some large companies and for some truly talented foreign students. I believe these people should be given green card upon graduation instead of the semi-employment status like OPT.
However, you are just using your own personal observation which may be right but ignore the big picture.
There are a lot of Indian outsourcing firms(far more than the number of large companies which are willing to give high salaries to foreign students) who preferentially recruit foreign students on OPT or import foreign workers on H1b to serve as consultants. These consultants do very basic and cheap contractor work for US IT companies.
Even if many US students are not qualified by merit for those large companies in silicon valley, average US students who are qualified for smaller companies also seriously suffer from those disastrous guest worker programs.

More importantly, US companies which do not find qualified US workers should invest more in training young US people instead of importing foreign labor. The reason that they do not do it is either they are selfish/greedy or they do not have
faith in American people. In either case, the goals of those US companies will be despised by American people

Finally, I am not speaking just for my own and I can tell you I am also a current  IT engineer at east coast. I also worked on campaigns of presidential candidates so I know a little about US politics.

I show great respect for Chinese students(otherwise I will not take Chinese as my secondary major). But I have witnessed too many layoffs of hard working Americans because of these guest worker programs. This also for the sake of Chinese students. I can assure that if this trend continues, there will be stronger voice of anti-immigration among American Public and there will continue to be
lawsuits against OPT, H1b or H4 or EB2 or EB3 from labor unions

micheljyc 发表于 2015-10-29 13:27
我怎么觉得那位兄弟有很多语法错误呢，而且又能看懂汉字，要知道我认识的这么多ABC里能说溜汉语的都几乎没 ...

语法错误是没有的， 地道的native speaker，这个装不来的

您说俺有语法或者表达错误， 俺心悦诚服，no matter how hard you try， you are still not native speaker

其实，咱也得冷静一点， 这位 @johnM 虽然言词有点刺耳，但，一是说得在理，二是心底里其实希望的是一个公平公正的 rule，这个对真正 talented foreign students 一样有利的，第三， 俺觉得其实 John 对国人的advice 是靠谱而且真诚的

FYR

johnM 发表于 2015-10-29 14:29
@jeff_xu001 I am not Chinese American but I studied Chinese as my secondary major.

@micheljyc,  ...

基本称得上是良药苦口， 忠言逆耳， thanks， @johnM

我觉得这位John同学后面说的还不错，也算提供了一种不一样的视角，虽然有不同意，但是捍卫你说话的权利。可是你一上来发表的“
International students should leave America! Stop taking jobs and opportunities away from American people!
America is for Americans! Indians and Chinese should go back to India and China!” 这些是什么话，我没感受到respect，所以别怪我一上来语气冲。

You said that I am just using my personal observation and I think that is very true, but it is also very true for you and many other Americans who oppose this law. Just like you don't think that I witnessed layoffs of hard working Americans because of these guest worker programs, I don't think you fully understand the situation in silicon valley.
For those Indian out sourcing companies or small companies that don't play by rule, they should definitely be punished and their employees should not get h1b or working visa. But the current situation is that there's no regulation towards those companies and H1B is base on a lottery system, which means those truly needed talents, hard working people may be forced to leave. Your suggestions of providing those people green card directly sounds awesome but is not practical at least in the near future. Without OPT I wonder how you are gonna keep those talents? Of course a better H1B system (not based on lottery for god's sake) can help but how long it's gonna take for such a rule to take effect?

johnM 发表于 2015-10-28 06:06
The opt extension rule is total madness. Too many bright American students in STEM fields cannot f ...

有空来这个论坛抱怨STEM找不到工作，有空来写那么大段大段的文字，不会去多刷几个题？别人在你浪费这种时间的时候努力然后找到工作，结果反而开始抱怨。

己所不欲，勿施于人。

futao0007 发表于 2015-10-29 09:39
你还和他废话什么。。。
.google  и我真不懂反移民都反到一亩三分地论坛上来了。。
楼主你在干什么。。。直接踢走 ...

层主，与其没建设性的生气，多看看这位老兄的观点，想想怎么理性的反驳，你的高品质评论就写好了，可以po到网上给new STEM rule 的顺利通过添加加瓦了。

johnM 发表于 2015-10-29 14:29
@jeff_xu001 I am not Chinese American but I studied Chinese as my secondary major.

@micheljyc,  ...

I think everybody should know that Indian outsourcing firms are key factor for this issue. Because they just recruit a lot people from Indian and help them to apply for H1B visa. If you take a look at the H1B visa report here: http://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2014-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.aspx Indian outsourcing firms or consulting firms are like smuggling their IT workers from India to US. I heard some stories about how they apply for working visa. They will submit more than one applciations for a single person who is working for a single outsourcing/cousulting firm. Based on the large number of people and larger number of applciations for working visa, they get more H1B caps from the lottery process.  

These cheating actions broke the balance between US students and talented international students. I support to enrich the restrictions/regulations because only a properly working rule could benefit both sides of people.

Well, Thank you for your points and I believe more communications are good!

fengyunzhe820 发表于 2015-10-29 22:57
有空来这个论坛抱怨STEM找不到工作，有空来写那么大段大段的文字，不会去多刷几个题？别人在你浪费这种时 ...

I apologize for my initial post, I was as angry and frustrated as other people in US english forum. But you shall understand that because I saw the same anger among Chinese students when you heard that the STEM rule is going to be cancelled next year Feb

BTW, I am a working professional for more than five years in IT industry and do not have to find a job

micheljyc 发表于 2015-10-29 16:10
我觉得这位John同学后面说的还不错，也算提供了一种不一样的视角，虽然有不同意，但是捍卫你说话的权利。可 ...

I do apologize for my initial post. I was as angry and frustrated as other American citizens when we heard this rule. We feel that the US government seems to care more about interest of foreign students and those giant corporations which benefit from guest worker programs than interest of US citizens.

It took 2 months for US administration to come up with a new rule to help foreign students. In contrast.
it took 5 different presidents and nearly 30 years and our immigration system was still broken.
You can dispute that immigration reform and a rule are not in a comparable scale but you shall see the outrage cannot be avoided for the initial time period

You shall understand the anger because I saw similar anger and frustration when Chinese students knew the STEM rule will be cancelled.

Instead of H1b visa and opt, I can tell you actually it is even more practical by giving green cards to talented foreign students graduated with STEM degrees in a limited list of universities(I mean top 25 or top 30).

There are already two bills, one in 2011 and one in this year in the Senate reflecting this policy.

Unfortunately, these two bills were killed by Congress. The reason is because there are already so many problems with guest worker programs and US lawmakers in Congress will never be convinced to provide more benefits to foreign students.

Abolishing those disastrous guest worker programs will actually open doors for foreign students to get green card in a much more convenient way.

If you are not still not convinced, another example, Donald Trump who is definitely a strong anti-immigration hawk who proposed crazy ideas like mass deportation and building a wall along the border. Even he supported merit based immigration system for international students. If you watch yesterday's republican debate , you will hear his position when he was asked about the issue of H1b visa.