DHS打算修改H1B抽签规则，将按照职位级别高低抽签

林岳山 发表于 2020-11-3 00:33
害 我是说h1b 的salary level只看base。那些股票啥的都不算就低估了收入了吧。

您没理解我的意思
股票 == performance pay，如果公司在offer letter或者policy里面写明白了，股票guaranteed pay，并且股票是按照hourly vest,比如您工作了一个小时，就有对应一小时价值的股票vested（工作半年离职拿半年股票，工作一周离职拿一周股票），可以大大方方的写进LCA的wage里面，所谓wage只有一个要求
1. 论小时计数
2. 无关performance
您的offer letter上的股票符合这个要求么？

新规之前看过，没觉得有什么问题，按照DOL的要求，同样new grad， 学士或者以下时Level-1为起薪，Master/Phd时Level-3为起薪，有经验者Level要提升一级，所以对于大多数Master/Phd来说其实基本上不用抽签，直接可以拿到H1B，比现在抽签4年都没中情况要好得多。同时新政可以加大ICC的成本，阻挡乌压压的绿卡申请，长远看还是有利的。
而且H1B压待遇的情况由来已久，我当年一直拿Level-1工资，后来忍不住自己申请绿卡，140批准后公司就升到Level-2，卡下来跳槽后工资就远超Level-4上限，整个年薪仅仅Base部分就提升到原来年薪700%（原来公司没有期权，新公司期权就不比了），可想而知H1B压待遇多狠。
所以H1B也是到了该改的时候了，总不至于拿到了H1B，然后很快就被新一年工资更低的人替代掉，失业继续找工作？
这次新规配套里面要反对的只在于DOL大幅提升工资标准，这个长远看有利，短期看不利于申请，要坚决反对

striges1111 发表于 2020-11-3 00:47
您没理解我的意思
股票 == performance pay，如果公司在offer letter或者policy里面写明白了，股票guara ...

如果按照guarantee的角度来说的话，大部分公司的股票都符合这个要求，每个quarter甚至month vest；如果非要一个小时结算才行，那个的确不算。But我的确没有花时间了解H1B那个wage具体规定是什么，地里大部分人都说是基本工资，但都还没有看到帖子有法律条款引用。

batilei 发表于 2020-11-3 01:08
如果按照guarantee的角度来说的话，大部分公司的股票都符合这个要求，每个quarter甚至month vest；如果非 ...

因为大部分公司的股票真的不符合啊，您要是说被pip了以后离职给还您发股票，terminated for cause还给您发bonus，我还真没见过这种大方的公司
不是说您正常出活给您发钱就guarantee，是您在公司赖着公司也要发才叫guarantee。

striges1111 发表于 2020-11-3 01:17
因为大部分公司的股票真的不符合啊，您要是说被pip了以后离职给还您发股票，terminated for cause还给您 ...

第一，bonus我同意，不是guarantee拿到；

第二，股票在中大厂应该算严格vest会拿到，工资换个角度说，如果员工表现不好，企业未来也可以降低工资，所以neither of them  是真的严格意义上guarantee拿到。至于你说的PIP， 我有限了解PIP貌似不影响stock vest schedule （但pip毕竟少数，我的不了解不同公司对pip员工期间股票vest怎么算，如果你干过几家公司，有真实数据和引用，可以share）。

第三，如我所说，我已经厌烦了论坛上很多人随便来的结论，法律是很严谨的事情，我从来没有在任何帖子看到有人post出法律条文的引用，基于哪里哪条规格，H1B只算base？都是张嘴就来，考虑到我也没有法律引用，所以我也没资格说啥，不想误导大家。

generally，呼吁大家对任何论坛自媒体的新闻，要有读书时候的较真求真精神，不要听风就是风听雨就是雨，自己的身份问题不去关心探究，谁会去care 你。

起初，纳粹抓共产党人的时候，
我沉默了，因为我不是共产党人。

当他们抓犹太人的时候，
我沉默了，因为我不是犹太人。

当他们抓工会成员的时候，
我沉默了，因为我不是工会成员。

当他们抓天主教人的时候，
我沉默了，因为我不是天主教人。

最后当他们来抓我时，
再也没有人站起来为我说话了。

—马丁.尼莫拉

事实就是川普政府甚至美国现在的大环境就是排外，就是想堵死合法移民的路，今天是非码农，明天就是所有人

batilei 发表于 2020-11-3 01:32
第一，bonus我同意，不是guarantee拿到；

第二，股票在中大厂应该算严格vest会拿到，工资换个角度说， ...

我不是读法律的 我只能给出自己的看法 对与不对 答案都在法条里面 你要自己去寻找。
我援引了 康奈尔法学院的context
地址：https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/20/655.731


(c) Satisfaction of required wage obligation.

(1) The required wage must be paid to the employee, cash in hand, free and clear, when due, except that deductions made in accordance with paragraph (c)(9) of this section may reduce the cash wage below the level of the required wage. Benefits and eligibility for benefits provided as compensation for services must be offered in accordance with paragraph (c)(3) of this section.
此处标红的就是雇主一定要付required wage给h1b雇员，未标红处表示雇主一定要给一样的benefits给h1b雇员（benefit不算在required wage里面）。下面的（3）讲了哪个是benefit。



(2) “Cash wages paid,” for purposes of satisfying the H-1B required wage, shall consist only of those payments that meet all the following criteria:

(i) Payments shown in the employer's payroll records as earnings for the employee, and disbursed to the employee, cash in hand, free and clear, when due, except for deductions authorized by paragraph (c)(9) of this section;

(ii) Payments reported to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) as the employee's earnings, with appropriate withholding for the employee's tax paid to the IRS (in accordance with the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, 26 U.S.C. 1, et seq.);

(iii) Payments of the tax reported and paid to the IRS as required by the Federal Insurance Contributions Act, 26 U.S.C. 3101, et seq. (FICA). The employer must be able to document that the payments have been so reported to the IRS and that both the employer's and employee's taxes have been paid except that when the H-1B nonimmigrant is a citizen of a foreign country with which the President of the United States has entered into an agreement as authorized by section 233 of the Social Security Act, 42 U.S.C. 433 (i.e., an agreement establishing a totalization arrangement between the social security system of the United States and that of the foreign country), the employer's documentation shall show that all appropriate reports have been filed and taxes have been paid in the employee's home country.

(iv) Payments reported, and so documented by the employer, as the employee's earnings, with appropriate employer and employee taxes paid to all other appropriate Federal, State, and local governments in accordance with any other applicable law.

(v) Future bonuses and similar compensation (i.e., unpaid but to-be-paid) may be credited toward satisfaction of the required wage obligation if their payment is assured (i.e., they are not conditional or contingent on some event such as the employer's annual profits). Once the bonuses or similar compensation are paid to the employee, they must meet the requirements of paragraphs (c)(2)(i) through (iv) of this section (i.e., recorded and reported as “earnings” with appropriate taxes and FICA contributions withheld and paid).
此处标红 我自己的理解就是assured的钱才是wage，故奖金不算（你也承认了）




以下是第三条已经不是cash wage paid。讲的是必须保证h1b持有者要享用和其他员工一样的benefits，其中 奖金 股票 pto等只算benefit。
(3) Benefits and eligibility for benefits provided as compensation for services (e.g., cash bonuses; stock options; paid vacations and holidays; health, life, disability and other insurance plans; retirement and savings plans) shall be offered to the H-1B nonimmigrant(s) on the same basis, and in accordance with the same criteria, as the employer offers to U.S. workers.

请注意 （2） 和（3）是相互独立的


补充内容 (2020-11-3 05:56):
法律原文和康奈尔法学院提供的是一样的
原文：https://www.govinfo.gov/content/ ... 20-vol3-part655.pdf

page 620 或自行搜索关键词731


补充内容 (2020-11-3 09:22):
我觉得法文中这些话不需要什么defination吧？
they are not conditional or contingent on some event such as the employer's annual profits.
如果这也需要解释，那我觉你可能英文不好 或者故意找茬。

stock unit和stock options还是稍微有点不一样，stock unit至少可以是cash equivalent（卖了就是钱），options真的是不行权0价值

batilei 发表于 2020-11-3 01:32
第一，bonus我同意，不是guarantee拿到；

第二，股票在中大厂应该算严格vest会拿到，工资换个角度说， ...

赞同您的精神。已经有人贴过原文了我就懒得再去找了。
您说到了公司可以降低工资，可以，然而公司必须至少pay LCA上的数字，nonconditionally。我倒是去看了看以前的offer letter上面的关于RSU的东西，大约都有这么类似一句话"the future value of the underlying Shares to be issued when the RSUs are settled is unknown, indeterminable and cannot be predicted with certainty and neither the Company nor any Parent, Subsidiary or Affiliate of the Company will be liable for any decrease in the value of such RSUs or Shares or for any foreign exchange rate fluctuations between Participant’s local currency and the United States Dollar that may affect the value of any benefit Participant may receive in relation to the RSUs or the Shares to be issued pursuant to the settlement of the RSUs"
在看看Wage的规定，cash in hand, free and clean。请问RSU里面哪条显示出来这是free and clean了

RSU vest plan都可以在sec查到，上市公司

我还是那句话，公司敢guarantee给您每年价值10000刀的股票，unconditionally，写进wage又怎么样。

striges1111 发表于 2020-11-3 05:29
赞同您的精神。已经有人贴过原文了我就懒得再去找了。
您说到了公司可以降低工资，可以，然而公司必须至 ...

如果真的要较真的话，what's the legal definition of "in hand, free and clean"?