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加拿大今天应对校园枪击成功-如何禁枪示范给美国看看

   
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 楼主| catcatsecond 2022-5-28 00:12:26 | 只看该作者
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本帖最后由 catcatsecond 于 2022-5-27 12:25 编辑
pentiummmx 发表于 2022-5-27 11:47
"总算是明白扯皮的点, 当然不是说禁枪一日可成, 但是禁长步枪open carry可以说是第一步几乎所有国家都 ...

不理解你要追求Fed level一下子达到禁open carry, 一个个州来行不行? 或者你来说说短期内什么措施可行? 不能把一个在禁止open carry的州隔壁的州投成禁止?  

像我原帖子说的,Open Carry连德州警察都评论说“让我们的工作变得更困难了”。 禁止Open Carry 可以理解没达到你想完全禁枪的预期,但是你说完全没用就是自我催眠了:

大大一个标题conclusion: Police say the new law makes it harder to do their jobs。
文章还有:

Open carry makes job more dangerous for law enforcement, officials

Earlier this year, Texas law enforcement officials held a news conference in Austin to oppose the so-called “constitutional carry” legislation. They included Garcia, the Dallas police chief, and Doug Griffith, president of the Houston Police Officers’ Union. “A minimum level of training is not asking too much for carrying a firearm and it is consistent with the Second Amendment,” Garcia said at the news conference.
. 1point3acres
“It makes our job, the job of our men and women, more dangerous,” he added. “Gun owners have a duty to ensure that their firearms are handled safely and a duty to know applicable laws.”. .и

Research shows open carry can increase violent behavior generally. Χ

我是信德州现任警察呢还是信你这个所谓“退休执法人员呢“, 人家也说这个法律让他们更难执法, 我自然更相信德州chief of police说的, 人家也持反对态度,言下之意取消这个open carry对他们肯定有帮助,你有意见可以理解,但是我更新权威专业人士。 你这种perfectionism其实婉转点的拥枪派自己给自己找了太多借口了,有点自我催眠的意思。 . ----
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附上一些Research数据,当然你可以质疑其观点,但是也请你提供你argument的数据支持,或者如果你有做过任何深入研究的话可以分享:
. .и
Several high-profile mass shootings in recent years have propelled law enforcement officials and lawmakers to call for stricter gun control laws, including restrictions on open carry. In Dallas in 2016, five officers were killed and seven others wounded in an ambush that marked the deadliest single incident for US law enforcement since the September 11, 2001 attacks.
. 1point 3acres
White nationalists who attended the “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, in 2017 stormed the city while openly carrying handguns and rifles. The rally ended with one person killed and 19 injured after a White supremacist slammed his car into a group of counterprotesters. In Kenosha, Wisconsin, last year, a group of men who openly carried guns during protests after the police shooting of Jacob Blake included then-17-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse, who shot three people with his long gun.

A report published last week by Everytown and the Armed Conflict Location & Event Data Project (ACLED) includes a study of 560 events between January 2020 and June 2021 at which demonstrators, counterdemonstrators or other individuals or groups were present, either carrying or brandishing firearms.

“Contrary to claims that the presence of guns in public spaces makes people safer,” the report says, “demonstrations involving at least one armed individual tend to be violent or destructive 16% of the time.”

The study found that armed protests are nearly six times as likely to turn violent or destructive compared to unarmed protests. While armed demonstrations turn violent or destructive about 16% of the time, unarmed demonstrators might turn violent 3% of the time, the report says. ..

“Data shows that visible guns makes people more aggressive, so it’s a logical next step to believe that open carry makes it more likely that disagreements will turn into violent conflicts,” said Watts, of Moms Demand Action.

TL;DR - 本质上要保证大家游行抗议的权利,但是正因为open carry很多抗议中有人带步枪的人,造成了很多伤亡惨剧,假如游行不让带visible的枪,是不是至少安全很多?
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casusbelli 发表于 2022-5-27 08:50
为啥你觉得世界上只有美国和中国。加拿大控枪也很严,也没独裁者啊。

为啥你觉得独裁者是一瞬间就来的?等你发现独裁者来了,你手里没抢,说什么都迟了。
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pentiummmx 2022-5-28 00:41:25 | 只看该作者
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catcatsecond 发表于 2022-5-27 09:12
不理解你要追求Fed level一下子达到禁open carry, 一个个州来行不行? 或者你来说说短期内什么措施可行 ...

首先,我不是退休执法人员,麻烦您回去读一读我的回复

第二,我对您的argument进行的回复,包括欧洲和中东的gun law,不知道您有什么感想。何必在这诉诸于所谓的专家opinion,沉浸于自己ban open carry的grand plan里面,而不去真正看看真正的法条和现实情况呢?

其次,真的没有必要去给我贴上所谓perfectionism或者拥枪派的标签,我指出了过去成功的控枪案例,给出了英国和澳大利亚成功的例子,为什么就变成拥枪派了呢?
.1point3acres
再其次,您提供的论据完全没有证明ban open carry --->减少了mass shooting。interestingly,看看美国仅有的几个完全ban掉open carry的州,猜猜是哪些?CA,IL,FL 这都是经常会发生mass shooting的州,您可以跑一个chi square test看一看相关性,也许会发现ban open carry的州mass shooting per capita反而更高?

again,您不需要这么worked up,相信版上的绝大多数人都和我一样,和您一样,是支持控枪的,就像我说的,过去也有成功的案例,比如加州的各种mag ban, assault weapon ban,这也许是legal成本更低的控枪手段
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因为美国黑鬼太多
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huanxijiuhao 2022-5-28 01:40:02 | 只看该作者
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禁open carry不治本啊
本来你还能看见有人扛枪上街,自己能留个心眼,取消了以后,,都藏起来了,更完蛋
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 楼主| catcatsecond 2022-5-28 01:43:33 来自APP | 只看该作者
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本帖最后由 catcatsecond 于 2022-5-27 13:56 编辑
huanxijiuhao 发表于 2022-05-27 10:40:02
禁open carry不治本啊
本来你还能看见有人扛枪上街,自己能留个心眼,取消了以后,,都藏起来了,更完蛋

说的是长枪,藏起来难,放包里拿出来组装也要点时间吧。
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 楼主| catcatsecond 2022-5-28 01:47:05 来自APP | 只看该作者
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pentiummmx 发表于 2022-05-27 09:41:25-baidu 1point3acres
首先,我不是退休执法人员,麻烦您回去读一读我的回复

第二,我对您的argument进行的回复,包括欧洲和中东的gun law,不知道您有什么感想。何必在这诉诸于所谓的专家opinion,沉浸于自
原来你的观点没有任何数据支持 起码新闻的research 有数据和警局opinion, 现在是人家research跑过chi square你却没跑, 那恕我不能同意了,不是篇幅大就有道理的。
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huanxijiuhao 2022-5-28 01:56:38 | 只看该作者
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.
看到你的担忧了. Waral dи,

“评论区这么久也没见拥枪的朋友讲出个所以然为啥他们需要拿着个步枪满街晃”.google  и

端步枪满街晃 和 腰上挂枪。。 默认他俩动机不纯,如果硬要我取消一个,我还是取消open carry短枪吧。。。。那个离近了才能看到,不利于我提前躲着
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 楼主| catcatsecond 2022-5-28 02:00:40 | 只看该作者
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huanxijiuhao 发表于 2022-5-27 13:56. Waral dи,
看到你的担忧了

“评论区这么久也没见拥枪的朋友讲出个所以然为啥他们需要拿着个步枪满街晃”

是的,给我最好两个都取消最好,不过各大拥枪派认为他们需要把手枪插在裤兜前面一天脑补几十次随时拔枪自卫的场景。 但其实人家真这么扫射他们来得及反应的可行性很低,这几年的shooting很多情况下他们插兜里也没啥用,可还是很多华人都呼吁大家天天把枪插在JJ上面(插在这个地方拔枪最快最隐蔽)上街随时拔枪做英雄的,估计阻力很大,一说这点估计一堆人跳出来又搬出来各种自卫/自由的拥枪理论了, 所以我就没提。

.1point3acres
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pentiummmx 2022-5-28 02:02:26 | 只看该作者
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catcatsecond 发表于 2022-5-27 10:47
原来你的观点没有任何数据支持 起码新闻的research 有数据和警局opinion, 现在是人家research跑过chi squ ...

没看出来这个新闻哪有数据支持?您摸过枪吗?您拼过AR15吗?拼起来真的10秒钟都不需要
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