查看: 1267| 回复: 4
跳转到指定楼层
上一主题 下一主题
收起左侧

How do I choose from different retirement accounts if I want to early withdraw

全局:

注册一亩三分地论坛,查看更多干货!

您需要 登录 才可以下载或查看附件。没有帐号?注册账号

x
写在前面:最近做了一些研究,写了一个关于retirement account early withdraw的小短文,因为很多东西不太好翻译成中文,相信地里大部分的人也不会介意看英文的。希望能够给大家提供一些信息。
Disclaimer
Do your Own Research. The  content is intended to be used and must be used for informational purposes only.  It is very important to do your own analysis before making any investment based on your own personal circumstances.

Motivation

Earth withdraw your fund from most retirement accounts will result in penalty and/or income tax. I don’t find a comprehensive article deep-diving into common scenarios and crunching the number. Thus, I decided to figure it out myself.

Before crunching the numbers, a little bit about the reason behind early withdraw. Some people (like me) don’t see themselves retire at 60 in the US. For example, people may choose to move to another country or move back to their home country. As a consequence, all retirement accounts can’t be maintained because you are not live and work in the U.S. Though, I haven’t consult any financial advisor / legal about the potential solution keeping those accounts, it’s better to explore sooner than later on all options which includes the early withdraw to avoid suboptimal investment decision and potential asset loss.

Assumption

Everyone is different in their financial situation. For simplicity purpose, we assume investing the maximum pre-tax money 19500 (or after-tax 13260) to different accounts to align the input across different scenarios listed below. We also assume your invest portfolio rate of return is uniform at 7%.
We also assume the investment horizon with early withdraw is 10 years and your income tax bracket is the same 32% throughout the time.

Common Scenario

Scenario 1: Invest in a traditional 401k with company match

Invest 19500 (maximum in 2021), company matches 3.5% of your annual eligible pay assume it’s 250000*3.5%=8750. Thus, the total contribution at the end of year 1 would be 19500+8750=28250 in your pre-tax 401k account. Exp ratio of funds in pre-tax 401k are around 0.02%~0.05% which is low enough and can be ignored. Here I don’t take tax withholding 20% into account since it will eventually converge to your income tax bracket that year. Here I assume you will max out your contribution at the beginning of the year, and match will be also maxed out at the same time. While in reality, most of company won’t be able to do that.

While you withdrawing your money, you need to pay 32% income tax and 10% penalty:

28250 * (1 + 7%) ^ 10 * (1 - 32%) * (1 - 10%) = 34010

If there is no company match:
19500 * (1 + 7%) ^ 10 * (1 - 32%) * (1 - 10%) = 23475

In this scenario, one doesn’t need to do any conversion among accounts, the only hassle is when pulling the money you may face a bit complex tax situation and 10% penalty. I will rate the hassle level at 2.

Scenario 2: Invest in traditional 401k with company match, rollover to a Roth IRA after 3 years when leaving the company

Same as Scenario 1, at year 1, total contribution is 28250. It will grow at 7% return for 3 years.

28250 * (1 + 7%)^3 = 34607

When rollover it to a Roth IRA account, one needs to pay tax at 32%

34607 * (1 - 32%) = 23533

The remaining 7 years, the same return rate 7%.

23533 * (1 + 7%) ^ 7 = 37789

Since it’s been a 7 years since the rollover, the initial contribution is considered tax and penalty free. However, the earnings needs to pay tax and 10% penalty (if not 59.5):

23533 + (37789 - 23533) * (1 - 32%) * (1 - 10%) = 32258

This scenario requires one rollover which will lead to tax implication, and when pulling out money from the Roth IRA, there is another round of tax/penalty hassle. I will rate the hassle level at 4

Scenario 3: After-tax money contributes into traditional IRA, then backdoor rollover to Roth IRA

In order to compare with other scenarios, I assume the total fund will be the same as 19500 * (1 - 32%) = 13260. This takes 3 years: 6k at year 1, 6k at year 2. 1.26k at year 3.

Since contributions are all after-tax money, they should be considered non-taxable events during conversion to Roth IRA. When distribution happens, the initial contribution 13260 will be no tax, no penalty but earnings will be taxed and penalized.

13260 + (6000 * ((1 + 7%)^10 - 1) + 6000 * ((1 + 7%)^9 - 1) + 1260 * ((1 + 7%)^8 - 1)) * (1 - 32%) * (1 - 10%) = 20444

This scenario requires three conversions to avoid much complex tax implication (avoid earnings in traditional IRA). When pulling out the money, it’s at the same level as scenario 2. Thus, I will rate the hassle level at 5 (maximum).

Scenario 4: Invest in a after-tax 401k, in-plan rollover to Roth 401k (then rollover to Roth IRA)

Since there is no match for after-tax 401k, thus initial contribution would be 19500 * (1 - 32%) = 13260

Since it’s all after tax money, it will not cause any tax whenever doing in-plan rollover or rollover from Roth 401k to Roth IRA for contribution. However, it’s worth noting there is some complication if you can’t do the in-plan rollover to Roth 401k and there is earning in after-tax 401k, which may cause more complex tax situation and I won’t go into details here. If you do the conversion from Roth 401k to Roth IRA, it’s a non-taxable conversion and the contribution can be pulled out ANY TIME without tax implication and penalty but earnings is still facing income tax and penalty. The same applies to not do the rollover to Roth IRA, Roth 401k early withdraw is facing the same tax and penalty for earnings while no tax/penalty for contribution. One thing to notice is Roth IRA distribution order is different from Roth 401k: Roth 401k early withdraws are prorated (more details (https://www.investopedia.com/ask ... ithdrawal-rules.asp)) while Roth IRA is following a certain order shown as below. If you withdraw all money, then it should be the same.



13260 + 13260 * ((1 + 7%) ^ 10 - 1) * (1 - 32%) * (1 - 10%) = 21109

This scenario potentially needs one rollover with no tax implication, and pulling out money from Roth 401k/Roth IRA may also face the similar tax and penalty hassle as Scenario 1. I will rate hassle level at 3.

Scenario 5 - baseline: Invest in a taxable account

Initial contribution would be: 13260

Assume annual dividend of the portfolio is 2% and all considered qualified dividend tax rate 15%. Thus, actual return is 7% - 2% * 15% = 6.7%. Assume long-term capital gain tax rate 15%.

13260 + 13260 * ((1 + 6.7%)^10 - 1) * (1 - 15%) = 23547

No hassle at all: hassle level 1 (minimum).

Summary

From financial perspective, we can clearly see from the results that maxing out pre-tax 401k with company match clearly win the gain (even with penalty) while maxing out pre-tax 401k without company match is around the same result as the baseline. Scenario 3 and 4 don’t make sense under early withdraw.





From hassle level perspective, it doesn’t make any sense to do Scenario 3 and Scenario 1 & 5 are close to hassle-free.


Before making a conclusion, another aspect I don’t mention much is different accounts can have various level of investment options and fees. For example, traditional 401k has less options while Roth IRA or taxable account have more options. I also don’t differentiate the rate of return for each scenario (except dividend tax mentioned in Scenario 5) assuming the same portfolio with the same rate of return, but in reality, it rarely holds true.

In summary, I will pick Scenario 1 and 5 because:
  • Scenario 1 and 2 are mutually exclusive. If you want to avoid any hassle, pick 1. If you want more investment options targeting higher rate of return, pick 2. In either case, max out contribution as early as possible if company can match your contribution no matter when you make contribution. If there is no company match or company match has to be paced month by month, pre-tax 401k is still a worth retirement account to put your money.
  • Avoid Scenario 3 since it doesn’t make any sense in terms of both return and hassle level.
  • As for scenario 4, due to early withdraw, tax benefits are limited, and I would avoid this as well.
  • For Scenario 5, I would first max out Scenario 1 and invest the rest into taxable account. We need to note short-term capital gain versus long-term capital gain since it will have huge impact on your decision choosing Scenario 5.


The following is showing overall rank for all scenarios.




上一篇:看到道德炒股系列,有谁出个皇读读反系列?
下一篇:分享几个炒股券商的使用体验
🔗
yiliaobailiao 2021-2-13 08:51:48 | 只看该作者
全局:
assume的250k 每年,是base吗?会不会有点高。。。
回复

使用道具 举报

🔗
yiliaobailiao 2021-2-13 08:55:30 | 只看该作者
全局:
楼主能不能再提供一个更长时间的啊?比如20年?
回复

使用道具 举报

🔗
 楼主| dreamingrobot 2021-2-13 11:51:57 | 只看该作者
全局:
yiliaobailiao 发表于 2021-2-13 08:51
assume的250k 每年,是base吗?会不会有点高。。。

你可以用你自己的数字,这儿只是举个栗子。
回复

使用道具 举报

🔗
 楼主| dreamingrobot 2021-2-13 11:52:49 | 只看该作者
全局:
yiliaobailiao 发表于 2021-2-13 08:55
楼主能不能再提供一个更长时间的啊?比如20年?

你想用20年,你自己带入就行了。不过20年有点长,都快退休了,为啥还要早取
回复

使用道具 举报

您需要登录后才可以回帖 登录 | 注册账号
隐私提醒:
  • ☑ 禁止发布广告,拉群,贴个人联系方式:找人请去🔗同学同事飞友,拉群请去🔗拉群结伴,广告请去🔗跳蚤市场,和 🔗租房广告|找室友
  • ☑ 论坛内容在发帖 30 分钟内可以编辑,过后则不能删帖。为防止被骚扰甚至人肉,不要公开留微信等联系方式,如有需求请以论坛私信方式发送。
  • ☑ 干货版块可免费使用 🔗超级匿名:面经(美国面经、中国面经、数科面经、PM面经),抖包袱(美国、中国)和录取汇报、定位选校版
  • ☑ 查阅全站 🔗各种匿名方法

本版积分规则

>
快速回复 返回顶部 返回列表