求批：In order to become financially responsible adults, children should manage

. check 1point3acres for more.题目：In order to become financially responsibleadults, children should manage their own money at the young age.


自己试着精写了一篇，跟人感觉还是欠批。尤其第一段让步段，感觉字数要比后边两段还多，不知道如何修改了。求达人帮助，并给估个分。


The issue of how to guide children to become financially responsible adults has drawn the public attention for a long while. Some people believe that to enhance children's responsibility in finance, parents should allow them to arrange their money by themselves at an early age without supervising. From my perspective, although it brings a few benefits, I don't agree with this statement.

Admittedly,  by managing their own money, Not only can  kids have a basic understanding of money concept, but they also can learn about how to rationally spend them on higher priority stuffs rather than those which has little usefulness. Take my cousin’s little son for example.  Before having money under his own control, he always was trying to ask mother to buy anything what he saw and liked disregarding its price, which might be a few dozen or hundreds of dollars cost. This is because he was lack of radical knowledge of money so that it seems to him that there is no difference between one dollar and one hundred dollars. Another reason is that he thought the money is infinite. If needed, just ask parent for it. Yet, after permitted to be in charge of his pocket money with one dollar coming in every day at the age of ten, he began to save money on food expense and to prioritize the things what he thought to be necessary to buy at the same time. Once the money is sufficient, he was going to purchase the most priority stuff. Apparently, by managing his pocket money, he became financially responsible. However, most of the time, it’s not the case in reality.

For one thing,  children often blow their money without parent’s supervising. At school  , when a vainglorious little girl sees some classmate playing with a Barbie doll that she never had, she would purchase the same one with her cumulative monies. A little boy, who is a crazy comic fan, would put all the saved money on the latest comic books that he has been following after as he is wandering in a bookstore. Furthermore, most of teenagers with monies under their own control, because of lack of self-discipline, could be more likely to spend all of them on candies or other sweet foods, which can decay their teeth.

For another,  there are better ways for youngsters to enhance their financial responsibility. Parents can be the excellent role models. Watching a frugal mom comparing prices in grocery stores, a kid would learn how to lead a more economical life. Similarly, a dad, who uses coupons and knows bargain tricks can show his child possible ways of saving money as well. In addition, children could also learn financial knowledge by attending such courses which is held by school. An Investment and Financing course could teach children how to make their money become value-added in future through some investment approaches.

All in all , despite a few merits, keeping money by children brings about more potential harms. The children’s financial responsibility can be fostered by other means undoubtedly.

题目：In order to become financially responsibleadults, children should manage their own money at the young age.


自己试着精写了一篇，跟人感觉还是欠批。尤其第一段让步段，感觉字数要比后边两段还多，不知道如何修改了。求达人帮助，并给估个分。


-baidu 1point3acresThe issue of how to guide children to become financially responsible adults has drawn the public attention for a long while. 这个开头句个人不建议，因为太万能了，什么话题都可以套上去，有用模板的嫌疑，事实上也没有哪个国家的公众会把这个问题当作热点话题来讨论，因而不能说has drawn the public attention 更不会是for a long while。Some people believe that to enhance children's responsibility in finance, parents should allow them to arrange their money by themselves at an early age without supervising. From my perspective, although it brings a few benefits, I don't agree with this statement.

Admittedly,  by managing their own money, Not only can  kids have a basic understanding of money concept删, but they also can learn about how to rationally spend them on higher priority stuffs好像stuff本身已经是复数意味，不加s rather than those which has 单复数和前面的those不一致，而且最好改成are of little usefulness. Take my cousin’s little son 最好告诉考官小朋友叫什么名字for example.  Before having money under his own control, he always was was always trying to ask his mother to buy anything what删 he saw and or liked disregarding its price, which might be a few dozen or hundreds of dollars of cost. This is was，这个句子后面还有几个动词全部都要改成过去式 because he was lack of radical knowledge of money so that it seems to him that there is no difference between one dollar and one hundred dollars. Another reason is that he thought the money is infinite. If needed这句话有歧义，What is needed? 是上一句中的"he"还是"money"?指代不明的情况下不要用省略句，改成Whenever pocket money is needed, he just asked parent for it. Yet, after permitted to be in charge of his pocket money with one dollar coming in every day at the age of ten, he began to save money on food expense and 【to prioritize the things what he thought to be necessary to buy at the same time. Once the money is sufficient, he was going to purchase the most priority prior stuff.】---同学你有没有发现这两句话语义（包括用词）是重复的？ Apparently, by managing his pocket money, he became financially responsible. However, most of the time, it’s not the case in reality.

For one thing,  children often blow their money without parent’s supervising supervision. At school  , when a vainglorious little girl sees some classmate playing with a Barbie doll that she never had时态不一致, she would purchase the same one with her cumulative monies积攒的钱不是这样讲的，叫pocket money/spare money或者再生硬一点extra money都可，还有，为什么money要复数啊。。。。。。. A little boy, who is a crazy comic fan, would put all the saved money on the latest comic books that he has been following after as he is wandering in a bookstore. Furthermore, most of teenagers with monies under their own control, because of lack of self-discipline, could be more likely to spend all of them on candies or other sweet foods, which can decay their teeth.后面这两个例子举得很好很有画面感！

For another,  there are better ways for youngsters to enhance their financial responsibility. Parents can be the excellent role models. Watching a frugal mom comparing prices in grocery stores, a kid would learn how to lead a more economical life. Similarly, a dad, who uses coupons and knows bargain tricks can show his child possible ways of saving money as well. In addition, children could also learn financial knowledge by attending such courses which is held by school. An Investment and Financing course could teach children how to make their money become value-added in future through some investment approaches.这一段写得极好！无意冒犯，但是和前面真的是同一个人写的么...

All in all , despite a few merits, keeping money by children brings about more potential harmsharm用词有点重了，concerns/worries吧. The children’s financial responsibility can be fostered by other means undoubtedly.

两个大问题：
1. LZ写作的时候应该有用心措辞，但是语言功底略单薄，对于TOEFL作文的要求来说语法漏洞太多了，会扣分；
2. 让步段写在了第二段，而且篇幅过长，这样的话文章很有可能会被判为偏题，或者凑字数，要看让步段的长度，可以看看本版别人的求改帖的文章。
但是举例很有TOEFL作文的味道，点赞！
如果考场上是这篇作文拿来评分的话，Raw score 4分以下（满分5）

perlin 发表于 2013-12-10 11:29
题目：In order to become financially responsibleadults, children should manage their own money at th ...

非常感谢版主耐心点评！ 针对点评有几个问题还想麻烦请教。1. 第一段开头套模板的问题。 我看了一些范文，开头句就那么几种说法，如何能避免给考官套模板的感觉呢？
2. 让步段确实字数偏多了，可以把例子内容精简一下。但精简之后，总字数要不到400的话，是不是会拉低分数啊
3. 第四段的父母的例子我是从别处借鉴过来的，后来发现这么写的话该段过于单薄，所以又加了一个例子，主要是为了凑该段字数。
4. 个人感觉在做独立写作的时候，最大的问题还是举例例证的时候感觉找不到合适的例子。尤其针对一些较为抽象论点的论证。比如，政府不应该支持非应用科学研究。请问版主有何方法可以在举例论证这方面提高自己？

aifer 发表于 2013-12-10 18:13
非常感谢版主耐心点评！ 针对点评有几个问题还想麻烦请教。1. 第一段开头套模板的问题。 我看了一 ...

斗胆插两句话：
1、开头我也总写不好，所以不多说。
2、如果我没有记错，官方评分标准说建议至少300词以上，并且说虽然少于300词仍然可以拿高分，但经验表明不到300词往往无法对论题进行充分展开。我个人的观点是：字数不是决定分数高低的因素；文章逻辑的统一、论证的力度才是决定文章分数的关键（当然语言本身也不能太差了...）。所以总字数不到400在我看来是不会决定文章分数的。
3、No comments.
4、在我看来（我准备过GRE作文），论证找不到例子的原因很可能是你对某个观点的分析还不够细致。比如“政府不应该支持非应用科学研究”这个观点。面对这个观点，你一定似乎觉得这个观点是对的/错的，但是想找个例子还真不容易，这是因为你可能不知道它对在哪里或者错在哪里。我一般会详细分析一下这个观点的推理过程： 1). 有的人认为“政府不应该支持非应用科学研究”是正确的，他们为什么这么认为？
2). 因为“非应用科学研究”不能立刻创造社会价值，反而可能需要投入巨大的人力物力去研究，会消耗原本可以用来改善社会其它方面的资源，投入和产出不成比例；相对立的，“应用科学”总是伴随着很快见效的社会价值，应用科学的研究成果可以很快改善人们的生活水平，对这类学科的投入和产出是成比例的，因此值得投入。
3). 紧接着再问：2)里面的论证所基于的前提、推理都正确吗？有漏洞吗？
4). 有漏洞。最大的漏洞，恐怕就是该论点把“应用科学”和“非应用科学”割裂地去看待，认为它们之间是相互独立的个体。但事实上，二者应该是相互促进发展的（这可以作为我们自己的观点）。就是说：我们的第一个分论点是“非应用科学的研究为应用科学的研究提供深层次的理论基础”（其实这个层次还可以继续分解下去，比如深入到一个具体的科学领域中探讨，但我这里就不多说了。例子可以头脑风暴各个领域中理论研究对应用科学的支持，比如爱因斯坦的质能方程是人们开发核能的理论基础，法拉第发现的电磁相互转化的理论最终导致发电机的产生，抽象代数又为密码的应用提供理论基础，等等等等...）。我们的第二个分论点是“应用科学的研究也会反过来促进理论的发展和完善”，同样，我们也可以继续深入到具体的学科领域。不过，咳咳...尴尬地咳嗽两声...我总觉得应该能想到合适的例子但我一下子也脑子空了...就找那种人们依据初始的理论体系去应用该学科，但在不断应用中发现理论体系有缺陷，于是返回去加强理论基础...
5). 结论就是：我们不能把二者割裂看待，必须看成统一整体。我们举的例子是用来证明我们的观点的，但把我们的观点证明了之后，对方的观点也就不攻自破了。
6). 总之我的意思是：楼主之所以觉得“政府不应该支持非应用科学研究”不好举例子，可能是因为分析不深入。这个观点内部包含了两个分论点，即2)里面说的两个。笼统地举例恐怕的确不好举。但是把分论点分析出来，分别举例，可能就好举多了。
7). 当然，我水平也有限，对上面论题的分析很可能也不够好，我列举的论点很可能也不够强。但我认为ETS并不关心你的观点本身是否正确（当然不能犯反人类反社会的原则问题），他们关心的是你的文章所展现的因果逻辑推理论证是否足够强，提供的例子是否能恰当地证明你的结论。只要你的论证到位、逻辑严密，就算你证明了“冥王星是一颗普通的行星”这个和现在世界公认的观点相反的观点，ETS仍然会给你高分的。

aifer 发表于 2013-12-10 18:13
非常感谢版主耐心点评！ 针对点评有几个问题还想麻烦请教。1. 第一段开头套模板的问题。 我看了一 ...

非常感谢就给加点米吧

1. 开头句的方法有千万种。。。除了OG以外的范文从来就不是范文
2. 一般分数很高的作文会过400，看你目标了
3.
4. 练习发散性思维，抽象的论点->抽象论点的具体体现形式->你知道的事例

大大还可以帮忙批作文嘛，，，通读一遍，收益匪浅！
大大威武！

perlin 发表于 2013-12-10 21:55
非常感谢就给加点米吧

1. 开头句的方法有千万种。。。除了OG以外的范文从来就不是范文

新人初来乍到，还不太懂规矩。非常感谢耐心回复。米已加

Ror 发表于 2013-12-10 19:43
斗胆插两句话：
1、开头我也总写不好，所以不多说。
2、如果我没有记错，官方评分标准说建议至少300词以 ...

回答的非常好。已加米。尤其是最后一个问题的解答，非常细致。发帖之前，我正在看这个题目，写了一些。本想分三段来论述的。
1. Firstly, goverment's financial investment to impractical research can accelerate the rate at which scientific discovery occures. 这段例子实在想不出来怎么阐述了，目前还留白中。。不知道有什么好的建议没。
2. Secondly, financial aid in basic science can cultivate talents to achieve success, which could also boost national reputation in the world. 这个是用陈景润的例子。国家花钱帮他打理生活，他专心进行研究。最后解决了很多世界性数学难题而得到了认可，并使中国在这一领域也获得了一定的reputation。
3. Lastly, basic science is the theoretical foundation of practical research, which directly improve human's daily life. Mathematics, physics, electrics and all other sorts of things compose the basic science. 最后这个用了个排比，贝尔发明电话是建立于电流的发现与电学的基础上的；计算机技术的出现是以数学的深入研究为理论基础的；火星上存在生命可能性的发现也是基于美国政府对NASA科研的支持。

zhaizhichao1200 发表于 2013-12-11 15:02
大大还可以帮忙批作文嘛，，，通读一遍，收益匪浅！
大大威武！

同学，你要和谁说话要点回复的呀

aifer 发表于 2013-12-11 21:26
回答的非常好。已加米。尤其是最后一个问题的解答，非常细致。发帖之前，我正在看这个题目，写了一些。本 ...

先感谢版主和楼主的加分鼓励~ 其实和楼主的讨论过程中我也能再学到很多东西。

针对这次楼主的回复，我的一些想法：

1). 首先确认一下楼主这里新写的3个段落是要论证“应用科学和非应用科学是相互依赖相互促进”这个观点的是吗？
.1point3acres
2). 假设1)的答案是yes，那么建议楼主思考一下secondly中的boost national reputation是否可以非常有效地作为论证“相互依赖促进”这个论点？我的感觉是不能：虽然secondly这个观点本身是正确的，但用于论证我们的中心观点时，却未必是一个好例子。


3). 上面说到的问题其实就涉及到评分标准中的"coherent"这个文章特性：论据虽然没错，但离中心论点有点远，和其它firstly以及lastly的论据也没有很好地统一在一个体系内，不够coherent。关于这个方面，推荐楼主一篇文章：《关于issue破题的一点思考：我们需要走出思维的桎梏》，看看这篇文章中的作者是如何构建自己论证的system的。


4). 对于firstly这个段落，如前所述，如果楼主觉得例子不好举，很可能是还没有把观点想清楚。例如，什么样的research就算是"impractical research"？什么样的就算是“practical research”？ 再比如，什么样的discovery就算是"scientific discovery"？这两个名词所指代的范畴可能我们没有完全定义清楚，导致我们无法比较精确地定位到一个比较具体的领域，进而导致我们无法去寻找该具体领域中合适的例子。呃...其实我上一篇回复也写得很模糊，没有把相关概念先定义清楚...

5). lastly的topic是说：“基础科学是应用科学的理论基础，后者直接提高了人们的生活水平。数学、物理等都是基础科学的组成部分。”。但这两句话只是两个正确的“事实”而已，却不能成为证明中心论点的“论证”。这就好比是说，中心问题是要证明三角形ABC和三角形DEF全等。你给出的“论证”过程是：因为边AB=DE, BC=EF, AC=DF，所以两个三角形全等。这个“论证”其实是不完整的。完整的应该是：因为两个三角形的对应边都相等，再根据“边边边定理”，即：“三个对应边相等的两个三角形全等”，所以这两个三角形全等。这是一个完整的论证过程：摆事实，讲事实和结论之间的联系(即定理、公理、道德约束、社会约束、法律法规等)，最后得出结论。我们以前的数学考试中的确不要求把定理明确写出来，那是因为当时的判卷老师和咱们学生有一个默认的“上下文环境”，即使用的定理一定是课本上的。但是我们现在写作文，你没有办法和阅卷考官达成任何一致的上下文环境，所以你必须把自己的论证过程中使用的“定理”“公理”明确表达出来。所以回到lastly这个段落中来的话，楼主除了说“基础科学是应用科学的理论基础，后者直接提高了人们的生活水平”这个事实外，你还需要进一步说“为什么”这个事实会导致“政府也应该fund基础科学的研究”。你可以举很多原因：例如你认为“政府的职能就是通过再分配来提高人民的生活水平。那么既然应用科学可以提高生活水平，且应用科学的发展离不开基础科学的发展”，所以“政府应该扶持基础科学的研究”。


6). 关于例子的问题。首先确认一下：咱们说的例子通常应该都是指那种点名道姓的例子，例如“爱因斯坦小时候显得愚钝”啊，“牛顿曾经把闹钟当鸡蛋给煮了”啊，等等。但如果楼主去看一下official guide中独立写作部分给出的满分作文，你会发现通篇没有一个这样的例子。评分标准中的确说了“例子”，但全文是“...using clearly appropriate explanations, exemplifications, and/or details(不过我一直没有弄懂这个details到底是啥...)”。就是说“例子”只是有效论证的手段之一，你用纯文字的逻辑推理也是没有问题的。于是又回到了我的立场：逻辑推理最重要（因此楼主在分析题目的时候，先别急着想例子，先把自己的逻辑论证过程想清楚并写出来，然后再适当搜寻合适的例子），字数、例子本身是辅助的而不是决定分数的关键。建议楼主去读一下OG中的这篇作文，在211页。


7). 如果楼主时间还充裕，建议读一下《新东方•GRE写作:从3分到6分》里面关于Analyze an Issue的分析方法。我这里用的这些招数其实全是从这本书上学的。不用非得买。家附近有书店的话，去蹲个一两天蹭书看就都学到了。